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AI glazers have zero shame whatsoever. (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 weeks ago* by to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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Artist Jingna Zhang built Cara, a platform explicitly intended to protect artists from having their art stolen by AI...and yet these people just won't leave them well enough alone.

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[–] 77 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

And then won, and then lost, and then won. That's how an arms race works. And we have the advantage in numbers. There are far more people who don't want their shit scalped than people working for the morons at OpenAI, or Google or Anthropic. And yes, they ARE morons. The battle is only lost when one side gives up. You only lose when you accept defeat.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The issue is that they can just reuse the existing art once they've "removed" the poison that was used on it. The artworks with poison in them aren't forever inaccessible to them, they just get them slightly later.

    That doesn't mean we should stop, but it still is a war that we ultimately can't win. Even if the poison technology advances faster than the AI companies are, they can simply use slightly older art with a less sophisticated version of poison.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago

    I mean, is the goal to prevent training or poison training. Yes nightshade will never prevent your work from being trained on, but hopefully models don't know it's poisoned and it sows model dysfunction.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately the anti-AI side is guaranteed to lose eventually, because there's a definitive lower bound: humans must be able to view and understand the image, ideally with no perceptible loss in quality compared to the original.

    This severely limits how far poisoning can go, whereas the theoretical limit for those stealing the art is at least the same level of understanding that humans have (in the sense that our universe physically allows such a mechanism to be implemented, as demonstrated by our bodies).

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    At the very least it makes the case that the artist believed strongly enough to prevent people from using their art without permission that they use increasingly radical methods.

    It makes it so crystal clear that these shitheads are acting in bad faith when they're circumventing custom made solutions to keep them from using the art.

    As if a sign on your website saying "not for use in AI training" shouldn't be enough. Like imagine I posted art with the message "not for use in movies" and then it got used in a movie. Open and shut.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    An Arms Race always reaches an end, and sadly there's more money and resources on the side of AI (but less people) than the side of anti (which has lots of people, but barely any money, and barely any resources)

    It will end in defeat, but a slow gradual one at least

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  • [–] 54 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    2 things.

    1. Master locks are the easiest to pick and still the most popular. I don't see you advocating for leaving your bike unlocked because it's inevitable that the bike thieves win.

    2. That money is fake and recirculated like the air in an airplane. That's literally what people mean when they talk about the AI bubble. All these companies are incestuous as fuck. Google invests in Nvidia who invests in Anthropic who invests in Microsoft who invest in OpenAI who invest in Nvidia who invest in Google. There's no NEW money coming in. That has ALREADY dried up. They're literally passing money in a circle. That's WHY it's a bubble, and that's how it's already popping.

    Personally I think we should watch Oracle. They're by far the most over leveraged. At least publicly. When they fall over, everyone else will follow. The big ones like Microsoft and Google are at least diversified and might survive, but the bubble pop will eventually catch up. OpenAI already spend $1.22 for ever $1 they make, and their expenses grow in lock step with their demand. Sam Altman's plan to make it all profitable is to build AGI and ask it to figure it out for him because, and I cannot stress this enough, he. is. a. moron.

    Your defeatist attitude is what they want because the more people that believe that, the longer the bubble is sustained.

    Take heart. They are weaker than you realise. They are not infallible, their armor is paper.

    I'm drunk and apologize for my flowery language.

    Happy Friday, the fight is winnable.

    I love you all.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    I agree we are in a bubble, but I think we should look at what is allowing us to be in a bubble.

    My best guess is that, as a society, we are completely structured around greed. If you have a way to make money, nobody is going to tell you to stop it. Obvious things that previous generations would have put a kabosh on that we are unable to, things that make some individuals money, put are socially parasitic: cryptocurrency and online gambling (that is GAMBLING spelled G-A-M-B-L-I-N-G: GAMBLING. In a sentence: Audrey spent her entire retirement GAMBLING at the casino).

    In the run up to the subprime mortgate crisis, Senator Diane Warren tried to raise the alarm that these loans were structurally unsound. She got calls back from colleagues all basically saying the same thing:

    We talked to our guys and they say it's fine--they're all making money.

    They're all making money! Therefore, the system is working as intended.

    If you want to look at it more structurally, we are also ruled an elite group of mega-rich. They have more to gain and less to lose by keeping the AI train going, but they are going to crash the world economy in doing so: a great opportunity to snap up real estate for cheap for them. The rich never lose.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I could not agree more. I’ve been having conversations with people about this since late last year and predicted that the bubble would burst some time in 2026 but I’m thinking I may be off and it could be early 2027 now. This accounting nonsense makes up a very significant portion of the US stock market, so the bubble bursting is gonna have some pretty big flow-on effects as well. I’d recommend anyone with any form of investment look into what they have and plan for a significant market event.

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  • [+] -8 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    You are delusional to think next year is gonna be curtains for a trillion dollar industry backed by billionaire CEOs, military and government influence. The AI bubble won't pop, if it ever does, until well into beyond the next decade.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    For the AI bubble to not pop, an AI company needs to make money off of AI first. Not raising investments. They need to actually make at least $1 off of using/selling AI services.

    This hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it ever will. The AI machines simply cost more to run than they produce, so when the investment money runs out, they'll be shut down.

    In 2007: "How could the housing bubble pop? After all, the real estate industry is backed by billionaire CEOs, military, and government influence."

    In 1999: "How could the dot com bubble pop? After all, the internet is backed by billionaire CEOs, military, and government influence."

    In 1929: "How could the Stock Market crash? After all, international capitalism is backed by millionaire CEOs, military, and government influence."

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    There is no numbers advantage when less than .001% of images are poisoned and of those 99.99% are using outdated tools.

    Besides, what’s the goal? Slow its progress down by a few weeks? The inevitable will happen regardless. Do you think people who edited their reddit comments before coming to lemmy made any difference? It’s laughably easy for an AI to tell is garbage data, even easier when you’re using a tool whose source the AI can view.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    Yeah fuck this defeatism. Anything you can do you do it. Same thing with anything you strongly disagree with.

    Even if you've failed don't give the impression that this was something you went along with. Don't make it seem like this was just the natural zeitgeist and no one fought it.

    Hopefully there will be history in the future, and if there is it should record the fact that there were once humans who tried to be a nuisance over what they believed in even when all the money in the world was against them.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    You know we could just upload an unedited photo to a platform, and then that platform keeps it unedited on a server. Then before exposing to web uses the latest poisoning service periodically. Remove the old edited photo, and apply again to the "raw" with the new updated service. Problem solved. Not super efficient, but still a solution made while shitting on the toilet. I'm sure there's better.

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