you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 72 points 3 weeks ago (20 children)

When people say Russia, do they include their government? Because the Russian government can fuck off alongside any government. I consider myself far left and I refuse to simp for any government or its leaders. Now if we’re talking about the Russian and Chinese working class, I’ll always support them.

  • source
  • hideshow 29 child comments
  • [–] 34 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    When people say Russia, do they include their government?

    I would think that would be all they are including. regular russian civilians aren't out there making a lot of propaganda, it's all either state owned media or right-wing nationalist influencers. except for the occasional video trying to convince people that pork tongue is actually good.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 24 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Well of course we should support the international proletariat, even the ones heavily propagandized to the right such as in Russia and the US.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago

    Yeah, this can’t be a partisan thing. That’s just feeding into the same nonsense division governments manufacture. It has to cross those aisles and educate folks on the fact that all working class are in the same battle against the same collective ruling class around the world. We’re seeing authoritarian regimes forming around the world and they are working together. We have to do the same.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    So what's your opinion of the US working class?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 32 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

    Support. We’re the most propagandized country in the world and need to be free of this tyrannical bullshit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Greatly appreciate you modeling healthier ways of engaging with leftist political ideology, thank you ❤️

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    I definitely can’t take full credit, but I appreciate this. My mom was a foster system case worker and bestowed her empathetic ways to me. I also admire people like Patrice Lumumba, Fred Hampton, Parenti and a few other folks. I like to assume most working class folks aren’t approaching a debate or idea with malice. Our brains are so inundated with stuff on the daily; we have opportunities to reduce that load and be respectful.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    What qualifiers are there that we're the most propagandized country in the world? I'm of the opinion that that's an incredibly hard thing to truly know and quantify.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The US has the largest military and police force in the world, and has had their hand in a multitude of regime changes, top secret experiments, etc. “Most propagandized in the world” might be a stretch, but the propaganda machine that has been manufacturing consent on this scale for years is easily among the worst of them all. Couple that with being in bed with Israel—another heavily propagandized population.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Because US propaganda has never been interrupted for 250 years. The regime in control of the USA has been the same regime the whole time, and the propaganda of that regime never went through an overturning. Russia's propaganda machine started in 1992, because the propaganda machine of the USSR went through a counter-revolution with the dissolution of the USSR and its machinery. The same is true of China, which would only have it's propaganda machine since 1950.

    Additionally, the USA is the inventor and creator of essentially all modern mass media from movies, to television, to the internet. It has the largest and most prolific media production organizations in the entire world, and it has such a robust propaganda system that it has literally been running radio and TV stations for propaganda on every inhabited continent for decades.

    It has the time, the means, the capabilities, the money, the power, the history, the staffing, and the motive and it doesn't have an adversary anywhere near as effective as it is for everyone else.

    Also, PR professionals in the US outnumber journalists by more than 6 to 1. And most journalists are enmeshed in the Western propaganda engine, just as they had been in Europe well before the USA even existed.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Now if we’re talking about the Russian and Chinese working class, I’ll always support them.

    There's literally one question that I ask Russian people that determines if they are worth the support. Just ask them if Crimea should return to Ukraine. That's it.

    Actually... No, don't do that if you still want to believe in them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago

    I think "support the working class" doesn't have to mean "do whatever they say". We're all generally propagandized into oblivion. Like, the US working class has been concerned about immigrants and trans women in sports but it's not pro-worker to go after those things.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    You're based.

    I truly don't understand that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" rhetoric that LOT of folks maintain out there just because they hate the US. Like if China or Russia were better places to live. The worst part is that this is what dominant classes want, polarization.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    It’s wild because I know the folks saying those things are aware that politicians are not their friends. So I don’t know why they allow themselves to be captured by otherwise problematic beliefs. We don’t apply enough nuance and separation of ideas from people.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    I'll support a government in so far as it does something to help the working class, generally that means I've only ever supported a government on one issue and told it to fuck off on the rest. I vote as far left as possible and that means I've never actually had a government comprised of people I've voted for.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    No government can wage a war for twelve years against wishes of their own population.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    How do you explain the US wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan?

    The US population elected a president who was promising to end the Afghanistan War in 2008. That war ended in 2021. That's at least 12 years of war against the wishes of the majority.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Good question. For most of those years (goes for both wars) they just straight up lied about how bad things were going. Then there's the propaganda. Holy hell, so much propaganda. Like not saying you're wrong by asking that question but there are ways of selling unpopular wars.

    Added to this, capitalists fucking LOVE wars. And without breaking capitalism all they're really going to do about the majority coming out against war is say 'yeah, what the fuck are you gonna do about it then?'

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    capitalists fucking LOVE wars

    Wait, I thought China was capitalist?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    How many Chinese billionaires are there again, I forgot

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yeah, that's the idea! China is capitalist but

    capitalists fucking LOVE wars

    And China hasn't fired on a ship since 1988 and hasn't dropped a bomb in a conflict since 1989.

    So is it that capitalists love wars or that China isn't capitalist? I'm confused

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The question itself is ridiculously reductive. Let's also not forget how China has ongoing border disputes with pretty much every neighbor that occasionally flare up, is expanding its reach in the South China Sea with artificial islands that serve as military outposts, is building up a massive navy and is in the process of modernizing its army.

    The .ml explains a lot lol

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The question itself is ridiculously reductive

    Says the person who says "China is imperialist" and "China is capitalist" and "All capitalists love war". Not reductive at all.

    China has ongoing border disputes with pretty much every neighbor

    Yup, pretty normal stuff for a country surrounded by borders and "international norms" defined by genocidal European imperialists.

    is expanding its reach in the South China Sea with artificial islands that serve as military outposts

    Against whom I wonder? https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/3771407/us-navy-destroyer-conducts-freedom-of-navigation-operation-in-the-south-china-s/

    is building up a massive navy and is in the process of modernizing its army

    I wonder why?

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-american-pivot-to-asia/

    https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/us-replicator-drones-counter-china-military-mass

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2021-12-16/washington-preparing-wrong-war-china

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    History says you are so, so wrong. Indisputably wrong

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago*

    Am I? In all those long conflicts the population was at first at least indifferent(Like the US in the Vietnam war or USSR in Afghanistan war) or outright supportive(Like the US in their Afghanistan war) and after the public opinion changed the wars quickly ended. On the other hand the tsar was deposed after less than 3 years of WWI.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (11 replies)