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[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago

I feel like the writers have so little wiggle room to do characterization when the characters are committed to a long narrative arc. No rando stand-alone, self-contained stories that edify and deepen.

Yeah, I get that. TNG had a lot more room to play with Data's quest for humanity than Picard. Which is ironic, given that Data was about as important as Picard in the second series.

But I also didn't need to watch Beverly Crusher have sex with a ghost. So, trade-offs.

It is the second most depressing aspect of NuTrek with the first being that Trek stopped being about presenting a utopia vision for the future.

I always found the Utopianism of Old Trek overstated. More often than not, it was the Trek crew stumbling on some alien race or society that was experimenting with another Sci-Fi author's idea of Utopianism. And then the Trek crew became the vehicle of Rodenberry's critique of the utopian philosophy.

I do think a lot of the NuTrek writers keyed in on the season long conflicts in DS9 and decided "This is what we need to do going forward". And, as a result, you got these increasingly narrow, black-and-white, action-focused adventures (the post-OS movies were the worst offenders of this trope). The apex of this (for me) was JJ Abrams blowing up Vulcan in his movie adaptation, so he could do Star Wars in Starfleet Uniforms.

But if you go back to the older episodes, I might argue that it was the captains who were Utopian. But the Trek Society was still very militant and authoritarian.

I would actually argue that Seth MacFarlane's Orville did a much better job of painting a utopian intergalactic federation than Rodenberry or his successors ever did. The culmination of the third season really painted the triumph of politics and inter-uh-galacticism over Realpolitik and imperialism.

[-] arrow74@lemmy.zip 9 points 18 hours ago

But I also didn't need to watch Beverly Crusher have sex with a ghost.

Take it back, next thing I know you'll say the episode dealing with Lt. Broccoli's gooning problem was unnecessary

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 4 points 19 hours ago

Man, putting the entirety of sentient biological life at risk to save the gender identity of one person is not a “triumph over realpolitik” but childish wish fulfillment completely unmoored from any sense of realism.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago

The alliance was what put sentient biological life at risk. The Moclans were incapable of reconciling with the Kaylons and only pushed the entire Planetary Union towards intergalactic war. The question put before the crew was of political alignment, not annihilation.

And it is reflective of modern global politics, wherein liberals surrender to their fascist neighbors to satisfy a hunger for human sacrifice that transgender people only fulfill on a temporary basis. In the end, it is the upstart working class who can be reasoned and negotiated with, while the religious zealots and fascist chauvinists who rush towards galactic annihilation.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 18 hours ago

What I remember: Kaylons refused military co-operation unless the PU turned over the girl Moclan. Without this alliance, there was a greater risk of annihilation. Is that correct?

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 1 points 4 hours ago

Kaylons are the robots that were trying to wipe out all organic life until the season 3, you mean moclans?

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

Kaylons refused military co-operation unless the PU turned over the girl Moclan

The Moclans refused military co-operation to battle the Kaylons. But then the Orville crew learned more about the Kaylon history and discovered their deep hatred of biological life stemmed from their long history of enslavement and abuse at the hands of biologics. So the crew reconciled with the Kaylons, but ended up in a fight with the Moclans who joined the Krill to wage war on the Union, pretty much entirely unprovoked.

The alliance with the Moclans and Krill was ultimately always doomed, due to the natural ideological conflict between them and the Unions. The Kaylon were the natural allies, but only achieved this allegiance through good faith efforts by each of the factions.

[-] pimento64@sopuli.xyz 1 points 17 hours ago

I always found the Utopianism of Old Trek overstated. More often than not, it was the Trek crew stumbling on some alien race or society that was experimenting with another Sci-Fi author's idea of Utopianism. And then the Trek crew became the vehicle of Rodenberry's critique of the utopian philosophy. [...] the Trek Society was still very militant and authoritarian

This is what happens when we fail our students. Inattentiveness combines with poor narrative comprehension and people only take away surface-level impressions to (of the few parts to which they paid attention, the still fewer) parts they retain.

this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2026
428 points (99.1% liked)

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