280
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by Vittelius@feddit.org to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world

Let me tell you about a Microsoft AI researcher [...] who recently spent quite a lot of time considering whether the legendary Microsoft real time strategy game Age of Empires II is conscious, and built a basic neural network within the video game using digital goats to prove his point. [...]

De Wynter built an LLM within AoEII using goats. “The point of the paper is to formally show that we anthropomorphise too readily, and that sometimes the claims we make with regards to LLM capabilities are too strong,” he told 404 Media. “It's not an easy task, given that ‘human-like attributes’ is a bit of an abstract term.”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] derek@infosec.pub 4 points 4 days ago

While I take your meaning I'm not sure this is a helpful path forward.

We're not fully sure what conciousness is or how it happens. We could split hairs about sentience, sapience, emergent properties, etc, and maybe even do so meaningfully but our semantics, today, will remain necessarily continental. Even if we progress our understanding beyond that point and discover real answers to those hard questions... Will we be able to define the boundaries between states? Will we be able to even sat such boundaries exist?

Addressing your argument directly: can sentience exist apart from perception of environment? I'd say it must. If so then how is sense and reaction an indicator such a system carries within it a theory of mind? It can't be. It's not enough.

The cart is firmly in front of the horse in all discussion and debate of LLMs as concious, sentient, or sapient. Partly because such claims in the affirmative are not yet testable (nevermind falsifiable) claims and, more to the point of the discussion at hand, partly because we do not know what it is we are talking about.

Anyone claiming otherwise is guilty either of magical thinking or of peddling snake oil and, in either case, has misjudged the importance of first answering more fundamental lines of inquiry.

[-] Mountainaire@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

[…] can sentience exist apart from perception of environment? I'd say it must.

Wait, really? Can you give several examples of this, then? Sentience involves an organized, (hopefully at least sometimes) self-aware response to one's environment. For example, the chance for something to become sentient is never increased by a lack of stimuli, right?

[-] Lumidaub@feddit.org 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Sorry, I don't follow. I'm talking about the definition of those words.

conciousness

Not talking about consciousness.

can sentience exist apart from perception of environment?

Sentience IS perception of environment.

how is sense and reaction an indicator such a system carries within it a theory of mind?

I don't know and I'm not saying it is.

we do not know what it is we are talking about.

Do we not? That's precisely why it's important to make that difference. Sentience is relatively easy to define and can be assigned with a lot of confidence whereas sapience isn't and can't.

this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2026
280 points (97.9% liked)

Fuck AI

7427 readers
693 users here now

"We did it, Patrick! We made a technological breakthrough!"

A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.

AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS