AHemlocksLie comments on Don't let the perfect(no genocide) become the enemy of good(controlled genocide).

[–] AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Sorry to split this, but got interrupted and accidentally mixed things up and only responded to the last half. I'd edit, but if this takes long enough, you might respond to that, and it's just cleaner this way, so my bad.

That chart shows the deadliest months happening under Biden, a bump to about half the peak monthly killings under Trump, then the eventual “ceasefire” stage we’re at now. The worst of it ended under Trump.

Considering they could have stopped Israel at any time, Democrats get zero credit for more killings happening on their watch and the eventual “ceasefire” happening on Trump’s.

You could also view it as Israel started it while Biden was in office, and he got the violence cut by 3/4 in half a year. Meanwhile, under Trump, the violence managed to as much as quadruple from when he came into office. Or, put another way, no month under Biden was worse than the first, compared to under Trump in which 2/3 months were more violent than when he came into office.

And again, I'm not saying the response was perfect or even good. I'm just saying there's a clear trend of things calming down under Biden and ramping up once Trump gets into office. Now, after Israel is facing global backlash and has been trying to squash it for multiple years, Trump gets into office when Israel is forced to come to the table in spite of himself.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 3 child comments

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You could also view it as Israel started it while Biden was in office, and he got the violence cut by 3/4 in half a year.

This isn't Marvel superheroes kid. You don't get to just makes things up and say, "look how good they did maybe". While these death count trends can't be read in any of these ways, the basic fact remains: Biden pretend to work on a ceasefire, Trump got one rapidly. Now, even the ceasefire is largely bullshit, even that is more PR than reflective of on-the-ground reality, but that's the scraps that liberals were conned into accepting and the line that Biden wasn't willing to cross against Israel. The lie of Biden attempting a ceasefire is laid bare already, so you should know that him working to "cut" the deaths is fantastical nonsense, literally make-believe. Again, Biden was a staunch advocate for Israeli settler-colonialism and the ongoing occupation for decades and materially supported Israel in its genocide to the hilt. He was not "working against it, but not enough". He was working for it. He is a genocider. The guy you supported did a genocide and you still don't have humility about it.

It's time to drop the pretense that Biden just wasn't "good enough". He was a demon. The question is not how a good guy made a mistake, but how a bad guy conned you and how you're failing to cope with it.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 2 child comments

[–] AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

Again, Biden was a staunch advocate for Israeli settler-colonialism and the ongoing occupation for decades and materially supported Israel in its genocide to the hilt. He was not “working against it, but not enough”. He was working for it. He is a genocider. The guy you supported did a genocide and you still don’t have humility about it.

Even though it's apparently a mortal sin here to admit that life has prevented me from devoting every waking moment to staying abreast of current events the world over, I'm gonna say that while I'm aware he has historically supported Israel, I'm unaware of evidence that he's endorsed the illegal settlements. Before you act like an asshole about it, reminder that I'm here willing to learn and openly inviting evidence that challenges what I thought I knew before I came in here.

It’s time to drop the pretense that Biden just wasn’t “good enough”. He was a demon. The question is not how a good guy made a mistake, but how a bad guy conned you and how you’re failing to cope with it.

I didn't say shit about him being a good guy who made a mistake. I called him less shit than the alternative. I understand that that seems hard to accomplish in terms of a genocide, but given we're still genociding and also invading Iran, supporting an Israeli invasion of Lebanon, potentially preparing to invade Cuba, and seized a foreign head of state... Maybe that wasn't an entirely incorrect assessment. The same people who want to tell me things slowed down under Trump with the "ceasefire" are the same people who ridiculed me for the fundamental idea of trying to slow it down while we work on stopping it in other ways.

permalink

fedilink

source

parent

hideshow 1 child comment

[–] Chana@hexbear.net 2 points 4 months ago

Even though it's apparently a mortal sin here to admit that life has prevented me from devoting every waking moment to staying abreast of current events the world over

You're still pretending to be a victim for spouting pro-genocider bullshit in ignorance. You even try to flip "they know things I don't and didn't appreciate my bullshit" into being our problem rather than yours. Perhaps this is spiritual Zionism?

Nobody requires you to know anything, actually. You can just, you know, shut the fuck up until you do. Learn to ask questions. Learn to learn. Learn that maybe you don't always deserve to have an opinion.

Though, I will point out that your hyperbole is revealing. It does not take much effort to know these things. People the world over konw them, it's not a full time job. But you have to be willing to start and to accumulate knowledge, not whine that you don't automatically know what's going on and deserve to share pro-genocider opinions despite not even trying.

I'm gonna say that while I'm aware he has historically supported Israel, I'm unaware of evidence that he's endorsed the illegal settlements.

What the fuck are you even talking about. I didn't mention "illegal settlements". But Biden has supported Israel to the hilt for his entire political life, and the premise of Israel is the settler colonization of Palestine. What do you think illegal settlements are? What does it mean when he gives them constant material support during genocide? When he brushes aside the supposed red line of killing Americans? You're not thinking critically.

Before you act like an asshole about it, reminder that I'm here willing to learn and openly inviting evidence that challenges what I thought I knew before I came in here.

No I"m not going to reverse teh way I treat you, you have not stopped beign combative. YOu say you're willing to learn and inviting evidence, but you are (1) responding to a bar I didn't set and ignoring the rest of what I said (being evasive) and (2) aren't asking for evidence. Do you know how to ask a question?

I didn't say shit about him being a good guy who made a mistake. I called him less shit than the alternative.

You absolutely framed Biden et al as people who could "do more" to "slow down" genocide, erasing their true role as active material proponents of the genocide. You absolutely did not frame them as those proponents, as enemies of Palestine. I am resopnding to your soft pedaling of Democrats' role and defaultism that they are not trying hard enough in the right direction rather than trying very hard in the wrong one.

I understand that that seems hard to accomplish in terms of a genocide

See, you still can't frame this as a genocide begun under and supported by Biden. YOur defaultism on lesser evilism presumes taht the bad things are forwarded by Republicans and Democrats are just failing to oppose or be "less bad enough". In reality, Dems are the big bad in this situation, they did the worse thing, and you cannot cope with it.

but given we're still genociding and also invading Iran, supporting an Israeli invasion of Lebanon, potentially preparing to invade Cuba, and seized a foreign head of state... Maybe that wasn't an entirely incorrect assessment.

See how we have to repeat ourselves because you don't read. I already responded to this in another comment. YOu just repeat yourself in various places because you don't read. The short of it is: you are blissfully ignoring the war crimes of Democrats to pretend that bad things happening under Republicans proves your opint. You wish to believe, again, in the default lesser evilism, and just repeat it over and over again, never actually asking how you'd do a more fair comparison, actively avoiding using appropriate language to attribute roles. THis is because you are a victim of propaganda, and you could escape it, but you have to stop resopnding to every comment and read and be honest.

The same people who want to tell me things slowed down under Trump with the "ceasefire" are the same people who ridiculed me for the fundamental idea of trying to slow it down while we work on stopping it in other ways.

Oh? What were you ridiculed for, specifically?

permalink

fedilink

source

parent