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Finally, a second cointelpoints [cw:hasan] (thelemmy.club)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/electoralism@hexbear.net
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[–] 15 points 4 months ago (19 children)

but it takes more than a massive audience and a couple million dollars to "build the vanguard".

what? No it doesn't

You're talking about building a cadre of dedicated and coordinated revolutionaries not talking about building and maintaining an army, which you could honestly probably still do with millions of dollars

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    I'd encourage you to elaborate on that. I'm wondering if you think that operating a party is less expensive than [I think] it is, or if you think Piker has more cash than [I think] he does.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    He said "build the vanguard" and a vanguard doesn't necessarily need to "be a party"

    With millions of dollars you can literally pay at least a few dozen people to do nothing but be dedicated revolutionaries, congratulations you're now building the vanguard

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Right, I guess my understanding is that he makes around $1m/year (very likely less) through his streaming co-op. He has to pay himself ($250k?) his producer ($200k?) and an editor ($80k?). Travel and production costs are probably around $100k, probably a bit more.

    That leaves around $400k available for political donations. People in the left-media space attest that he does make donations to various orgs without announcing it all the time. Since this is under the table, we dont really know where this funding goes, but I an willing assume he is generous toward Palestinian liberationary causes at a minimum. It's not exactly building a vanguard, but I don't have an issue with directing funds toward staff or resources for those orgs at all. I guess I could speculate further, but we are talking about a couple hundred thousand year at this point. It's not enough to make-or-break the success of the left, if the vanguard depends on a couple hundred thousand a year from a single streamer, it is not robust enough to take and wield power anyway.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    400k would pay for yearly 50k salaries for 8 people to do literally nothing but agitate, infiltrate other organizations, coordinate with established groups like the PSL, etc if you've done that congrats you're establishing the vanguard

    The vanguard isn't The Bolsheviks, it's the people who ultimately led and coordinated the bolsheviks, and it's easier to cultivate, educate and train people for those roles when it's literally their job.

    He has to pay himself ($250k?) his producer ($200k?) and an editor ($80k?). Travel and production costs are probably around $100k

    Citation needed (i'm not literally asking for citation) and also insane numbers to a person who makes <30k a year

    Really i thought "oh well millions of dollars doesn't mean he has millions in income" after i posted but like no lol that's so much money

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    These payroll numbers include 50-100% overhead (typical rule of thumb) since they need to pay taxes and healthcare. I don't think it is exactly my business how much they are personally paid by their co-op. not to sound too "bootstraps", but they earned it with minimal labor exploitation*.

    A trip to a speaking event is going to be $3k minimum for travel/food/lodging for two people for a one day in and out, and probably $800/day along the way. I figure they are spending at least 30 days on the road this year.

    I don't think it would be wise to circumvent taxes as that offers red meat to the feds to throw you in jail immediately.

    I do agree that it's necessary to have paid leadership, I hope Piker is aware of this and doing his part, but he doesn't have any accountability to me anyway besides parasociality I guess. This is also why I'm more interested in discussing how his platform can be used for better or worse for on the ground activities, rather than whatever he is actually doing.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think it would be wise to circumvent taxes as that offers red meat to the feds to throw you in jail immediately.

    i think if you're paying people to do a revolution you need to not get caught, I think you need to be doing shit that'd get you RICO charges (i wonder why that exists), and any talk of taxes or benefits or healthcare from this kinda misses the point of what im saying this should be. It's not like the feds are going to let you build communism anyway just because your corporate structure complies with the law

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I guess that's all good and well but Hasan Piker is definitely not the guy you're looking for. Everything he does is under scrutiny by US and Israeli government officials, they would be happy to get him in jail. Illegitimate actions require illegitimate actors and he is not it.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    400k would pay for yearly 50k salaries for 8 people to do literally nothing but agitate, infiltrate other organizations, coordinate with established groups like the PSL, etc if you've done that congrats you're establishing the vanguard

    no it wouldn't, there's employment taxes and shit, even if they didn't set up benefits, and if he was just using contractors we'd clown on him over that.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    You're envisioning hasan piker incorporated giving people jobs to do the business of communism and im envisioning hasan piker using whatever means necessary to siphon money to people to free them from having to spend the majority of their time and energy at a real job so that they can instead focus on revolutionary activity. without paying taxes

    and honestly in that case 50k is a lot. plus benefits? dawg we are fighting a civil war nobody should be expecting a pension from shit like this

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Good luck convincing twitch viewers to do anything

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Idk I run into people in my organizing and personal life who cite him as an influence. Because these are my current and potential comrades I am interested in discussing how we can take advantage of his reach rather than discussing whether the streamer is doing a good or bad thing. He is not accountable to me or anyone else, so I need to work with whatever I've got.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    oh yeah I am on board with the pipeline concept, I don't really care if people are streaming or enjoying streamers or anything tbh I just also don't expect anything out of anyone involved. people get radicalized in all kinds of ways, either way it won't be enough before the empire collapses and either way we'll have to figure out how to survive in the aftermath. and I do believe that if something actually viable cropped up Hasan would be one of the few people with as much influence as him who would probably support it in the end

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I'll defend Hasan as a generally positive influence on yankee politics but I would not defend his fans nor trust them to build the vanguard

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    You don't need hasans fans you just need his millions of dollars

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    One person with influence can't build the vanguard right? You need multiple dedicated and disciplined hands. You can only buy so much discipline

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    the millions of dollars... pay the professional revolutionaries...

    Okay you know how Josef Stalin robbed banks to fund the bolsheviks? imagine having millions of dollars.. and you don't even need to rob a bank

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Yeah word I'm following you now, still tho. Hasans net worth isn't exactly a banksworth. Assuming his position in good faith wouldn't it be fair to say taking on the American government with $8 mill (total networth) is a little ill advised? Funding revolutionaries with stated goals of changing the government is going to entail a bunch of legal and operational costs on top of paying the revolutionaries to live.

    I guess I can see that he's probably the person closest to being able to do that at all, and its disappointing that he thinks so little of the process.

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