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AOC surges to lead in 2028 primary for first time (www.newsweek.com)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/46769092

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[–] 14 points 5 months ago (56 children)

Most of our fellow Americans are massively misogynistic and its been highlighted twice in the last 10 years by the fact that Trump won the presidential election against women. I'm saying this as a massive fan of AOC. I identify pretty strongly with her open aggression towards backwards thinking.

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  • [–] 36 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    I disagree, I think Hillary and Kamala were bad candidates and covering it up with blaming it on misogyny is actively harmful.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Hillary and Kamala were bad candidates. I didn't cover that up because I agree. They were the equivalent of a hangover fart in a sauna far as presidential nominations go, but I disagree that their loss wasn't spurred at least partially by a growing amount of misogyny in society.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago* (5 children)

    "Growing amount of misogyny" compared to what time exactly?

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago

    Compared to when a centrist woman was running. Americans are only conveniently bigots against whichever progressive is running at the time. Sanders in 2016? "75 is too old! No one will vote for him!" Biden in 2020? "How DARE you say that 78 is too old!"

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    We never lived in a female utopia, but there's an alarming trend of teenagers that are being influenced by the man-o-sphere so 2015 onward.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Ah yes and those teenagers vote in elections right? It's not the boomers who mainly vote?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    There's also a not insignificant amount of millennials that are becoming more misogynistic and pessimistic due to the loneliness epidemic coupled with popularized misogyny on social media. Look, if you want to totally ignore the ground swell of underlying issues that got us to where we are, you're more than welcome to. It worked so well when we ignored former Confederate supporters and open racists for a hundred years.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I'm not the one ignoring the reality of the situation, blaming voters for not electing bad candidates and blaming it on misogyny is idiotic and unhelpful.

    The reality is the majority of the US has always been misogynistic and those are actively being stoked and amplified by a confluence of factors mostly down to the fact that peoples lives are getting worse /harder and being told x/y is the problem when the true problem is capitalism and its effects/capture of our government.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Hillary and Kamala were bad candidates

    Compared to Trump?

    No, we not only have a misogyny problem, we have a serious propaganda problem. Check out "the necessary conversation" on youtube and witness the power of propaganda and how it harms regular people and convinces them that fascists are not fascists.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    You realize the majority of left-leaning people who didn't vote for Kamala/Hillary didn't turn around and vote for Trump in turn right?

    This is the "if you're not with us you're against us" mentality but the reality is the majority simply didn't vote because they didn't seem the benefit in doing so. What we need are stronger candidates with clear policy in order to get people excited to vote, or more importantly reform our voting from FPTP so that 3rd party candidates aren't considered "spoilers".

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You realize the majority of left-leaning people who didn’t vote for Kamala/Hillary didn’t turn around and vote for Trump in turn right?

    Not voting for Kamala/Hilary WAS a vote for Trump.

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  • [–] 28 points 5 months ago* (28 children)

    Factually incorrect, as evidenced by the fact that Hillary won the popular vote.

    The problem isn't running women. It's running women who are unscrupulous and/or shitty at politics. Harris couldn't even make it out of Iowa in 2016, so it was evidently a stupid call to let our brain-damaged former president anoint her as a successor without a primary.

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  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    Beware of ANYONE going around spouting the “we can’t run AOC because WOMEN ALWAYS LOSE! Just look at the LAST TWO TIMES!” bullshit

    As if Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris were perfect candidates offering anything more than “imagine how bad Trump would be!”

    “The Most Lethal Millitary”

    “Nothing will fundamentally change”

    “Pokemon Go!-to-the-polls”

    I mean come the fuck on.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    "Pokemon Go to the polls" was just a silly meme. I think voters wanted somebody to the left of Obama, and Hillary felt like a big step back to the '90s.

    Dissing Bernie's platform didn't help. One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would "never, ever happen". Instead of adapting her platform to win over Bernie's voters, she just dismissed it completely as foolish pipe dreams. Just really tone deaf and smug about it.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    One key moment I remember was her saying that Medicare For All was something that would “never, ever happen”.

    I honestly hope it happens in my lifetime. Just for the sheer delight of gloating at centrists that the default is no longer "siphon your paltry amassed wealth to billionaires and then die."

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I think voters wanted somebody to the left of Obama, and Hillary felt like a big step back to the '90s.

    Here's a fact that makes my leftist friends mad at me(since 2008) ... Hilary IS and was left of Obama. People saw what they wanted to see in Obama because he is so charismatic. A lot of people hated Hilary because of the constant dragging of Hilary in the media for over 20 years.

    I fell for the anti Hilary propaganda. And it wasn't until she was a serious contender that I started looking deeply into her record. She's actually pretty amazing. If I ever meet her I will definitely apologize for falling for the bullshit.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    She sure seemed to be on the right of Obama during her tenure as Secretary of State. Yes, I know that isn't an unbiased source, but this isn't coming out of nowhere. She was buddies with Kissinger. Like I said, this is all stuff that people wanted to leave behind in 2016.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Secretary of State is a position where you are supposed to represent the agenda of the president. Knowing former secretaries of state and being able to get information from them is an important part of having that job... if you're a serious person, it is a serious fucking job.

    It's so bizarre to me that people don't realize what it means to work in these cabinet positions. Or at least what it used to mean. This cabinet is not focused on competence at all, but rather on social media, self aggrandizement and gossiping about and undercutting each other.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    George W Bush once said that if the popular vote mattered he'd campaign in Texas.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    No shit it doesn't matter, but it does demonstrate a flaw in LDF's point.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Not really. That's kind of the point of the quote. If the popular vote actually counted it would radically change the way elections are run and campaigned in. There's no telling how that election would change if the popular vote mattered.

    That election is pretty interesting for instance because Hillary made massive mistakes in not campaigning in certain swing States. Or at least campaigning enough. Michigan being the main one. Now maybe that means in a universe in which popular votes mattered she would win. Or maybe it means in a universe where popular votes matter, Trump would campaign in places that he didn't before and get a lot more votes. The entire concept is altered dramatically by that key fact.

    Either way the point is you can't just assume it would be the same because clearly it would not.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    This is such a bad, and bullshit, take. Half of male candidates lose too. The odds of 2/2 female candidates losing is pretty damn high, and one of those candidates didn't even have 99% of the campaign, and she still wasn't that far off.

    Those two candidates were just shit candidates. They were even more shit than the average Democrat candidate. They didn't lose because they were women. They lost because they campaigned on status-quo, neoliberalism, pro-corporate ideas that inspired no one. AOC isn't that. The only thing they have in common is being women, and it's a complete fabrication to say there's any solid evidence those other candidates lost because they're women.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Ah, yes, because Biden had such radical forward thinking progressive views. He was in no way a status-quo, pro-corporate candidate that didn't inspire anyone....

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Biden actively pilfered Bernie's platform after winning the primary, so he was a forward thinking progressive compared to Harris and Hillary. Harris in particular explicitly ran to the right of Biden; she wasn't exactly subtle about this. Perhaps more importantly, however, he had COVID on his side. Plenty of voters (33% of all voters and 57% of Biden voters) considered competent handling of COVID one of their two most important issues when voting; if COVID hadn't happened or had happened under Biden's watch Trump would've wiped the floor with him.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Ah, yes, because Biden had such radical forward thinking progressive views.

    Biden ran on a lot of progressive policy. Childcare, revisiting the public option, family leave, rescheduling cannabis. They were all lies that killed the party's credibility and made the 2024 bid a hard sell even before the genocide, regardless of which democrat was the candidate.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Biden was able to run on a "lesser evil" platform. He won because he wasn't Trump. Hillary or Harris could have won in 2020.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    That and also he ran on a platform of "if you didn't vote for him you weren't black," so I'm sure that helped out. Probably a lot of suburban whites thought they'd leave the booth magically Trudeau'd up.

    (Clearly I'm just making fun of Biden's statement with a little jab at Canadian Blackface and white kids, laugh about it it isn't that serious.)

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I think it's more along the lines of Hillary and Kamala were just too meh of a candidate to actually get people out to vote. I think AOC even though generally not as big tent as the previous two will still perform really well because of the amount of billing willing to go out and vote for her.

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