▲ 639 ▼ Caitlyn Jenner asks Trump for help after impact of trans passport policy (www.newsweek.com) submitted 4 months ago* by Sunflier@lemmy.world to c/leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world 92 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] lemonhead2@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago (4 children) wait, was she a trump supporter? permalink fedilink source hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] wander1236@sh.itjust.works 105 points 4 months ago (2 children) Caitlyn Jenner is one of the most famous examples of pulling the ladder up after yourself permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 4 months ago She's clearly still got at least one foot on the ladder or she wouldn't be raising an issue here. That's a special kind of stupid. permalink fedilink source parent [+] YesButActuallyMaybe@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 26 points 4 months ago (3 children) True story: Bruce Jenner was an active race car driver in the 90s. The series he participated in was the Trans Am series. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world [M] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) I understand that your comment relies on the understanding that Caitlyn Jenner's deadname is Bruce Jenner, that the joke is that she participated in a racing series that's nearly "Am Trans", and that she went by Bruce when she was actively racing. To avoid deadnaming, I'd still ask that you use language like "Caitlyn Jenner (formerly Bruce Jenner) was [...]" and "The series she participated in [...]" (or something similar). I totally get that none of your comment was meant as transphobia; I even used to think that "historical deadnaming" was the best way to write to avoid confusion, so I sympathize. I eventually realized, though, as e.g. on Wikipedia's article for Elliot Page, that using their real gender and their chosen name historically is not confusing and is just more accurate to how being transgender actually works – i.e. that it's not a decision somebody makes one day. I don't think it's severe enough to rub up against Lemmy.World Terms of Service Rule 1.2 as "discrimination against queer groups", so this is just a polite request and hopefully food for thought. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago (1 child) The series he participated in was the Trans Am series. This better not awaken something in them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child) LOL. Lemmy... downvoted for facts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 18 points 4 months ago (2 children) Downvoted for deadnaming someone. It'd be a decent joke otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago (2 children) Serious question here. If someone was well known as a previous name and sex, is it still deadnaming to refer to them that was in a historical context? They’re a perfect example here. If looking for historical information on their racing history and articles, you have to refer to them as Bruce. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Janx@piefed.social 4 points 4 months ago (2 children) They didn't. Jenner went by Bruce and their gender identity was male at the time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 13 points 4 months ago There are plenty of recent pictures of her at Mar-a-lago. She's not just a supporter, she's someone that has been to his parties permalink fedilink source parent [–] BurgerBaron@piefed.social 8 points 4 months ago Still is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wander1236@sh.itjust.works 105 points 4 months ago (2 children) Caitlyn Jenner is one of the most famous examples of pulling the ladder up after yourself permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 4 months ago She's clearly still got at least one foot on the ladder or she wouldn't be raising an issue here. That's a special kind of stupid. permalink fedilink source parent [+] YesButActuallyMaybe@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 4 months ago She's clearly still got at least one foot on the ladder or she wouldn't be raising an issue here. That's a special kind of stupid. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] YesButActuallyMaybe@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 26 points 4 months ago (3 children) True story: Bruce Jenner was an active race car driver in the 90s. The series he participated in was the Trans Am series. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world [M] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) I understand that your comment relies on the understanding that Caitlyn Jenner's deadname is Bruce Jenner, that the joke is that she participated in a racing series that's nearly "Am Trans", and that she went by Bruce when she was actively racing. To avoid deadnaming, I'd still ask that you use language like "Caitlyn Jenner (formerly Bruce Jenner) was [...]" and "The series she participated in [...]" (or something similar). I totally get that none of your comment was meant as transphobia; I even used to think that "historical deadnaming" was the best way to write to avoid confusion, so I sympathize. I eventually realized, though, as e.g. on Wikipedia's article for Elliot Page, that using their real gender and their chosen name historically is not confusing and is just more accurate to how being transgender actually works – i.e. that it's not a decision somebody makes one day. I don't think it's severe enough to rub up against Lemmy.World Terms of Service Rule 1.2 as "discrimination against queer groups", so this is just a polite request and hopefully food for thought. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago (1 child) The series he participated in was the Trans Am series. This better not awaken something in them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child) LOL. Lemmy... downvoted for facts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 18 points 4 months ago (2 children) Downvoted for deadnaming someone. It'd be a decent joke otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago (2 children) Serious question here. If someone was well known as a previous name and sex, is it still deadnaming to refer to them that was in a historical context? They’re a perfect example here. If looking for historical information on their racing history and articles, you have to refer to them as Bruce. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Janx@piefed.social 4 points 4 months ago (2 children) They didn't. Jenner went by Bruce and their gender identity was male at the time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world [M] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) I understand that your comment relies on the understanding that Caitlyn Jenner's deadname is Bruce Jenner, that the joke is that she participated in a racing series that's nearly "Am Trans", and that she went by Bruce when she was actively racing. To avoid deadnaming, I'd still ask that you use language like "Caitlyn Jenner (formerly Bruce Jenner) was [...]" and "The series she participated in [...]" (or something similar). I totally get that none of your comment was meant as transphobia; I even used to think that "historical deadnaming" was the best way to write to avoid confusion, so I sympathize. I eventually realized, though, as e.g. on Wikipedia's article for Elliot Page, that using their real gender and their chosen name historically is not confusing and is just more accurate to how being transgender actually works – i.e. that it's not a decision somebody makes one day. I don't think it's severe enough to rub up against Lemmy.World Terms of Service Rule 1.2 as "discrimination against queer groups", so this is just a polite request and hopefully food for thought. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago (1 child) The series he participated in was the Trans Am series. This better not awaken something in them permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child) LOL. Lemmy... downvoted for facts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 18 points 4 months ago (2 children) Downvoted for deadnaming someone. It'd be a decent joke otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago (2 children) Serious question here. If someone was well known as a previous name and sex, is it still deadnaming to refer to them that was in a historical context? They’re a perfect example here. If looking for historical information on their racing history and articles, you have to refer to them as Bruce. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Janx@piefed.social 4 points 4 months ago (2 children) They didn't. Jenner went by Bruce and their gender identity was male at the time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 18 points 4 months ago (2 children) Downvoted for deadnaming someone. It'd be a decent joke otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago (2 children) Serious question here. If someone was well known as a previous name and sex, is it still deadnaming to refer to them that was in a historical context? They’re a perfect example here. If looking for historical information on their racing history and articles, you have to refer to them as Bruce. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Janx@piefed.social 4 points 4 months ago (2 children) They didn't. Jenner went by Bruce and their gender identity was male at the time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ramble81@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 months ago (2 children) Serious question here. If someone was well known as a previous name and sex, is it still deadnaming to refer to them that was in a historical context? They’re a perfect example here. If looking for historical information on their racing history and articles, you have to refer to them as Bruce. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 13 points 4 months ago IMO, best practice is still to use the current name/pronouns. I think it's OK to say something like "Caitlyn, formerly known as Bruce" if clarity is needed and then proceed with current name going forward. In this instance, everyone knew who we were talking about so it was unnecessary. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CrackedLinuxISO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago* My personal take: If I'm synthesizing historical information and recounting it in the current day, I would use their current name and pronouns. The person they are today (or died as) still did those things. It also gives space to recognize that, although they might not gave had the opportunity to be out as a trans person during those achievements, doesn't mean they didn't feel trans back then. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Janx@piefed.social 4 points 4 months ago (2 children) They didn't. Jenner went by Bruce and their gender identity was male at the time. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EponymousBosh@awful.systems 7 points 4 months ago Still best practice to use current name unless the person has specified otherwise. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hamid@crazypeople.online 6 points 4 months ago (1 child) In 2020 I was recalling a story about wanting to be them as a kid because of the Wheaties box and deadnamed them and people got really really mad at me. I had absolutely no idea they were the same person as Caitlyn Jenner, never seen or knew anything about the Kardashian's and had no idea they didn't just fall off and disappear completely permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] binarytobis@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago Like you, I am almost completely unaware of anything said or done by the Kardashians, and I love that for both of us. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FoxyFerengi@startrek.website 13 points 4 months ago There are plenty of recent pictures of her at Mar-a-lago. She's not just a supporter, she's someone that has been to his parties permalink fedilink source parent