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Ukraine tells critics of slow counteroffensive to 'shut up' (www.reuters.com)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[–] 1 point 3 years ago (9 children)

And that law forbids people from speaking Russian... how?

Ukraine is in full compliance with the ECRML. Russia isn't even a signatory.

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  • [–] 37 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

    And that law forbids people from speaking Russian... how?

    Love how liberals act really fucking smart 99% of the time and suddenly get really fucking stupid as soon as their shit is called on.

    How about a friendly game of whataboutism? What about if the US right wing succeeded in making English the official language of the United States? What would happen to all the people who speak Spanish primarily?

    (Psst... are we not talking about the killings then? All the pogroms and murders sure seem to have gotten left on the wayside of this conversation.)

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    If the US introduced that law then anyone who were to print a Spanish publication would also have to print it in English.

    Which sounds strange but then you have to consider that Russia has been trying to eradicate the Ukrainian language since Catherine the Great. Ukrainian was actually outlawed. Present-day Ukrainian is simply making sure that Ukraine is the lingua franca of Ukraine and is, as said, in full compliance with the ECRML. Which the US doesn't ratify either btw and it won't because then suddenly they'd have to stop eradicating native languages.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago

    Russia has been trying to eradicate the Ukrainian language since Catherine the Great

    Even if that was true and not some harebrained ahistorical overgeneralisation what does that have to do with how the Ukrainian state treats it's Russian-speaking population? We are talking about an Ukrainian law, imposed by the Ukrainian state on Ukrainian citizens living on Ukrainian-controlled territory. How is trying to eradicate the Russian language in Ukraine preventing the alleged Russian policy of eradicating the Ukrainian language in Russia? How does one wrong justify another?

    Ukrainian has been an official minority language of the Russian Federation since the breakup of the USSR and schools in Russia's new territories are teaching an Ukrainian-language curriculum to students whose families so desires. There's probably plenty of bad things to say about the Russian education system but giving a language you are hellbent on eradicating official status and teaching it at schools seems like an odd thing to do.

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  • [–] 25 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    This ECRML?

    The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages (ECRML) is a European treaty (CETS 148) adopted in 1992 under the auspices of the Council of Europe

    Huh, wonder what the Council of Europe thinks of Ukraine's language law:

    The Venice Commission, the Council of Europe’s top advisory body on constitutional matters, said that several of the law’s articles, including article 25, “failed to strike a fair balance” between promoting the Ukrainian language and safeguarding minorities’ linguistic rights.

    You have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe sit down and listen a little?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (4 children)

    You hexbears were the ones starting this whole thing with "They outlawed speaking Russian", not knowing WTF you were talking about, easily disproved by looking anywhere but at Russian propaganda. It's not my responsibility to educate you in more than quips.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    What, in your opinion, are the most common outlets of Russian propaganda?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Bought or individually manipulated small content creators, in other words, astroturf. Believe it or not the FSB actually arrived in the 21st century and they know that the likes of RT are too on the nose to have wide-spread impact.

    Also, targeted media amplification, like that Maersheimer video which suddenly went viral (and, ironically, was then amplified by, of all people, tankies. Must not have gotten the party memo that (rightly) decried geostrategic realism as imperialist apologia)

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    You're saying that small astroturfed internet personalities are the Russian Federation's primary means of legitmizing it's interests in the public eye? Bigger than oligarch-owned news station and media empires?

    Can you name some of these bought or individually manipulated small content creators?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago

    Bigger than oligarch-owned news station and media empires?

    First off, you said "common", and yes there's definitely more of those than big media empires. Secondly, when it comes to impact, yes, I'd also say that they're having a relatively larger impact. RT can't even operate over here the institutional stooge of Russia over here is the AfD. To a lesser degree, Die Linke but they managed to deadlock themselves into arcane pseudo-pacifism, "Oh Ukraine should be helped but we shouldn't send weapons because we're Germany", the ultimate old guard new guard compromise.

    Can you name some of these bought or individually manipulated small content creators?

    It's kinda hard I don't want to say names because a lot of them might also be useful idiots. Like at least half of the tankiesphere on youtube, I have no way to tell whether Hasan has been groomed by Russia or is simply being an idiot on his own accord. If you look at the post history of random accounts commenting with Russian lines on youtube they very much look like bots.

    Another rather more prominent example would be Elon Musk. He's definitely been worked over by Russia. Merely getting cold feet over starlink is one thing, suddenly using language such as "Lenin's mistake" in relation to Ukraine is a dead give away of direct exposure to Russian brainwashing. As to the rest of the platforms I wouldn't really know I don't frequent those.

    The pattern of influencing is well-documented, though. There's a reason that "Russian bot farm" is a term (one of the first things that Ukraine blew up in Moscow, btw).

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