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US AND ISRAEL ATTACK IRAN (www.aljazeera.com)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/news@hexbear.net
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[–] 19 points 7 months ago (22 children)

Over 80% of Americans are opposed to this. Even the people who voted for Trump, a large portion did so in part because he framed himself as the anti-war guy. They’re stupid for believing him sure, but the alternative was directly arguing for war with Iran during her campaign.

Or are you just saying we should storm the White House and the Capitol and _______? Sounds like a great plan, the most surveilled people on earth fight the strongest military power in the world.

The United States can only be stopped by outside military force, as it was with Germany, as it was with Japan.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Americans always try so hard to remove themselves from responsibility for their society's actions. You are culpable, and people outside the US are justified in fucking hating Americans.

    The United States can only be stopped by outside military force, as it was with Germany, as it was with Japan.

    pathetic weaselly way to throw your hands up and let it happen. This is why Americans suck. They "don't support" what their government does but don't believe they can do anything about it, and leave the rest of the world to suffer until some "outside force" comes to save the day. Internal turmoil is in fact a crucial step in dismantling the US empire, christ

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago* (10 children)

    Sure let me just rig up a suicide vest and go blow up my local town hall, that will surely be productive.

    People want to do something but telling a single individual they are complicit - while possibly technically correct - isn't really helpful. We are severely lagging behind on organizing against this but lashing out at the few of us the care the most about this shit is unproductive imo. They are definitely wrong that only outside force can stop this and on that I will concede you are correct, there just is a much better way to make this argument.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Sure let me just rig up a suicide vest and go blow up my local town hall, that will surely be productive.

    Literally no one said this, what I argued against was the bullshit position that somehow we shouldn't hate Americans because they are "powerless." Fuck Americans. Americans should (and I'm sure many are) deal with their problems and work together and all that shit. But people outside America are fully justified in saying: Fuck Americans. Especially losers who spend their time defending how it's not their fault, that they don't support the evil. No one cares, stop centring yourselves, American feelings literally do not matter to people outside of America watching a girls' school get blown up.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (8 children)

    Also "possibly technically correct" is weaselly bullshit too. Yes an American is complicit. Full stop. Not "possibly", not "technically." Fully. Acknowledging that complicity is the first step in doing something to change it, and prevaricating about it just shows a lack of commitment to actually be responsible for change.

    Edit: An American who was actually opposed to this and in solidarity with the people that are dying for their shitty government's bloodlust would not be defensively arguing their lack of responsibility, they would understanding the rightful anger of others and not making it about ensuring they don't have to personally feel any guilt.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

    I'm not dismissing your rightful anger, just saying I think you were misreading the comment, though they were wrong in their analysis.

    We are a very misguided and propagandized people and the thing they are describing is real. People do not like this but are also complicit because they too lack critical analysis of the thing they oppose. That does not mean they do not oppose it though. They just don't know how to oppose it. They do however know that it is bad and should be opposed.

    Simply pointing out complicity without offering up anything more in terms of a call to action doesn't really do anything.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah sure, Americans should sit around and wait for people from the outside to explain them to how to work together in their country. I'm not giving a call to action on a website because the American in question is the only one here who is able to look at their community circumstances and go and participate in something.

    The comment in question was literally an American rejecting responsibility by saying the US citizens opposes this, then throwing their hands up and saying they need an outside force to do anything. And this was in response to someone saying they hate the US, a perfectly reasonable thing to express on this of all days.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    The comment they were responding to was saying that Americans are an evil people

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Okay and? We talk every day about how Israelis are an evil people. I'm supposed to give a shit if an American has their feelings hurt?

    It's very much #NotAllAmericans energy. No one is oppressing Americans but Americans, people outside America saying shit about them isn't oppression. If you don't feel like it applies to you because you are not evil, then understand why people outside the US are calling you evil and work to fix that. Don't argue that actually you're one of the good ones.

    Simple.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    We talk every day about how Israelis are an evil people.

    I didn't even say they are not lmao. All I said is that broad categorizations as such are not really productive in the end and Americans are a much larger population with many more contradictions than the Israelis.

    Simple.

    America is anything but. Are you lumping in all African Americans, Latin Americans, etc. who are fighting their own internal colonial struggle against the genocidal empire?

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Are you lumping in all African Americans, Latin Americans, etc. who are fighting their own internal colonial struggle against the genocidal empire?

    No because anyone who is seriously opposed to American violence wouldn't identify with America, wouldn't defend Americans online in a thread about Iran being bombed, and wouldn't take it personally when people insulted America.

    Just like when women say that men are all evil, the ones who aren't the problem will continue to fight against misogyny, and the ones who get upset and declare that not all men are evil are actually self-centred and useless as allies.

    Just like when people of colour say white people are all racist, the ones who are actually interested in anti-racism won't argue about the "complexity" of white people.

    Just like when I say cissies are all a bunch of bigoted transphobes, the ones who aren't won't tell me how much they actually are on my side.

    Just like when I say the Brits are colonial monsters who need to sink beneath the waves as karmic retribution, the ones who are actually anti-colonial will not tell me how personally attacked they feel, or bring up that there also people in Britain who oppose the government.

    But sure, let's all centre the feelings and struggles of Americans on this day, and use minorities as a fucking debate tool to try to shame someone online for saying American citizens fucking suck and allow war to happen.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    It certainly is not at all about my feelings on the matter I was only saying they were correct that a lot of people are turning against this and if they are not doing anything about that is where our job comes in.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Yeah sure, Americans should sit around and wait

    I literally said the opposite, that we are lagging and that is a moral failing and the person you were responding to was wrong for saying that resistance cannot come from within. People do oppose this and we need to leverage that. I don't know what you are arguing at here but you are doing a textbook strawman here.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Nuke every american population center but nuke Texas'* twice

    Note: this is completely serious until mods get involved in which it is a joke and had always been a joke

    /* latest fad

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

    Are opposed as in they are setting on fire ammunition production? Or those 20% are all in military production by coincidence? Maybe they are refusing service to veterans? Or maybe they are blockading ports instead of arguing for americans on tankers stealing oil?

    The alternative in voting were libertarians and greens and psl, if they are both the same - which they are, but even that effort is too much for burgerreichers. So no, i don’t believe they are opposed to anything, they have opinions which they don’t act on even if it were not costing them.

    Amerikans have the only agency in the whole world to oppose this, and they dick around arguing about burger prices

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    And sure a lot of these are very kinetic, with risk of losing white picket fence mortgage, whatever, i understand material comfort, cause i have it relatively good in that department, with having a job and residence, my despair is at total absence of those types of people. It’s like measuring temperature, amerikkkans managed to produce like 8 people willing to go to jail over their beliefs, out of 340 million. Not 1000, not 100, 8 (3 self immolations bushnell, 4 pal action gals and guys and one elias, whom one should write a letter to, but won’t because it will lower credit score)

    But voting and boycotts are free, literally, and they don’t even do that. And im not attacking local posters, you shouldn't take offense at calling amerikkkans (euros are the same) evil - or purge nationalist brainworms

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    It doesn't even bother me to call Americans evil I was just saying we need to actually do something to harness the resentment that does very much exist instead of just saying oh well they are still evil.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Stopped by an outside force? And then replaced by what? By who? Do you want an outside power to create a new system for you too? The American people have kicked the can down the road for way too long and now it's "all too hard"?

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