TubularTittyFrog comments on To Every American Who's Sorry (from the Greenland subreddit)

To Every American Who's Sorry (from the Greenland subreddit) (thelemmy.club)

submitted 7 months ago by bytesonbike@discuss.online to c/justpost@lemmy.world

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Didn't know where to post this but man, I so get it.

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[–] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago* (14 children)

The entire thing is blaming the victim. As if people suffering under Trump are somehow complicit in their own suffering and they should just overthrow him violently.

It's typical armchair revolutionary nonsense, people who post this crap and want to blame everyone else, which is very easy to do in an online echochamber full of ignorant people who are just venting their angst.

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[+] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works -7 points 7 months ago (13 children)

As a Canadian who is under direct economic and now physical threat by magapolitik: yes and no.

The entire thing is NOT victim blaming. If two thirds of the electorate supported the fascists, the remaining third is both victim and responsible, and the ONLY way to fix this problem at the moment is for that demographic to recognize it, despite the education system and popular culture suppressing nuance in thinking.

So often, the apologies or calls for sympathy are founded in a deep individualism and shallow civic duty. Yeah, it’s your neighbours who are the soil that grows fascism. You have to fix it at the root: education, civic development, secularism, humanism, community, collective action. You have to heal rifts of creed and work hard to eliminate racism, and realize that the endgame of capitalism is always oligarchy and imperialism.

So yeah ‘fix your shit’ applies when we feel like “service neighbours” for your absolution, as we are not going to make you feel better when we are stressed by your collective existential threats and you are showing a distinct lack of responsibility.

On the other hand I know of lots of folks who are already preparing to support refugees, particularly trans etc., so we are being practical here about the active victim situation, not just keyboarding.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago (7 children)

The electoral college system in America means that a certain number of electors are assigned per state. Most states electors are assigned on a winner takes all basis. For instance even in deep red Texas he only got 56% of the vote but was assigned ALL Texas's electors just like Harris received all California's electors. Electors are assigned by state not by population so you could theoretically win with as little as 1/3 of the vote.

We cannot basically ever change this via normal political process because the Southern traitors would lose votes and amending our constitution requires overwhelming not majority support.

There are approx 338M people in the US. Approx 85 M didn't get to vote because they were under 18 in November of 2024. Of the remaining 253M 77M voted for Trump 75 for Harris and 100M didn't vote.

Many of those who didn't vote lived in districts and states that were already decided in which those residents had no voice because of our broken system. A system that now endangers us and the world.

If you poll people the percentate that actually support Trump and his policies isn't the percentage of the vote he received, 48%, its 39%

You said 2/3 but its a hell of a lot closer to a third.

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[+] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works -6 points 7 months ago (6 children)

You assert that if the missing 100 million showed up it would make no difference in the outcome, so they were not showing tacit support? I remain unconvinced.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

No. I'm saying that many not all were effectively disenfranchised by a system that would effectively give their votes to the opposing side no matter how they voted. For example blue voters in Texas.

You asserted that American's were collectively complicit because 2/3 voted for him. This isn't true. 48% voted for him. Voter turnout was furthermore suppressed by a system in which blue voters in red districts/states have no hope of representation. The actual support for Trump is actually only 39% of Americans.

61% of us are along the ride.

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[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

No, I know you are trying to argue in good faith, but I asserted that 2/3 supported, which includes not voting, regardless of defeatism. If the vast majority voted in opposition but still failed, there would be much more impetus for electoral reform, for example.

Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support, even if it’s negligent. Disenfranchised votes are worth struggle.

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

Failure to actively oppose at the polls is tacit support,

25% of the population were under 18 during the election they cannot be said to tacitly support trump.

22% of people voted directly for Harris they directly opposed trump.

This alone is 47% of the population! This alone disproves your 2/3 narrative!

30% of the pop by not voting did not cast a tacit vote for Trump. Few countries have 100% voter turnout in any free country. A sane mathematical treatment of the situation is to assume that a sufficiently large sample is representative OR to ask people.

If 48% of voters voted for Trump we assume 48% of those who were adults in 2024 are responsible or 36% or we can ask people if they support Trump and we get 39%.

Most in the US aren't for our modern day nazis

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[+] ThunderQueen@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

[deleted]

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[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

After all votes were counted he won the popular vote by a small margin but bear in mind 100M literally didn't vote. Apathy is as big an issue as evil.

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[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago

I'm one of the ones who did vote against him but I live in Los Angeles. In LA County, 2.4 million voted for Harris, 1.2 million voted for Trump, and 1.9 million didn't vote. (45 thousand voted for RFK, Stein or other fringe candidates.)

A million of those non-voters could have all voted one way, EITHER way, without changing the results. So what "tacit support" are you talking about?

The entirety of California'e electoral votes went to Harris. But the electoral college is unbalanced,

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/electoral-college-states-representation/

so our candidate got 9 fewer electoral votes than she would have if it were fair. And even if all 1.9 million Los Angeles non-voters had voted for her it wouldn't have changed a thing.

Should they have voted anyway? Yes, if only because of the local elections and propositions they could have had a voice in.

And California is one of the easiest, most vote-supportive states, which mails a vote-by-mail ballot and supplemental information packets to every registered voter.

But if someone didn't, I'm not going to ascribe some kind of blame or "tacit support" label to them instead of hearing their individual situation.

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[–] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

the solutions you are suggesting will take 50+ years to develop. and nobody is interested in investing them, democrat or republican. there is no political platform for any of that in the USA.

You basically are suggesting we be entirely different than we are. it's not possible. everyone is going the opposite way. most 'leftists' in american are actively embracing racism just like the far right.

also you canadians have a lot of the same root problems as americans. cost of COL is through the roof, you refuse to reform immigration, and you are increasingly polarized, and deinvesting in helathcare and education. you're just a decade or two behind. I lived in canada for 3 years. It was very much America in the 90s. things are better generally, but nobody is addressing any of the real problems and the citizen themselves don't want to do it because it would be too painful.

I mean lecture every american all you want, it's not going to change the facts on the ground. the notion of some sort of deep common humanism doesn't exist anymore in our politics and it hasn't since the 1960s.

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[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works -5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Bullshit. A few years when the commitment is there and collective responsibility is widespread.

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[–] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

a few years nothing will change. the democrats don't do anything, they just kick the can down the road and pretend it's fine. all they are is more polite than the republicans. maybe you don't remember recently history but Biden and Obama admins did nothign to address serious problems. they just threw a couple of bandaids on our bleeding wounds and called it a day.

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[–] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

This pessimism is annoyingly familiar to Canadians, but we usually express it with a hint of irony.

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[–] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago*

it's not pessimism, it's understanding how people work.

The funny thing about leftist/progressive agenda is... everyone is for it, until it impacts them personally. Everyone wants more housing, more immigration, more education.... until its in their town and their tax bill goes up. Then all the sudden they are VERY opposed to these things.

My own very blue city just had lots of tax rates go up. All the sudden our very popular progressive major is getting a lot less popular... and her progressive plans to expand and fund new things is now being cut back...

weird how that works, right? it's almost as if people don't want the things they say they want...

everyone's idealism disappears when the bills come due and the cold hard facts of finite resources and infinite demand slap them in the face.

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