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[–] [S] 15 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Why am I cross-posting .ml content?

I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don't want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some niche comms.

Megathread on the issue

Some highlights from the link:

"Don't worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167

"See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn't count!!" ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342

.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068

"NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035

General negative sentiment to other instances who haven't "seen the way" yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

"If you don't support Russia then you just don't understand geopolitics" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can't even put them all here because this comment would be really long.

I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda

On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like "Lemmy? Isn't that the place with a bunch of tankies?" Or "Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left". The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I think it creates needless duplicate data on every federated server, and fragments community discussion

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Wait so if the Lemmy devs are transphobic... Should there not be a fork at this rate? Also, I've heard a lot of shit talked about .ml and seemingly for good reason but what's the story with all this? How did it get this bad?

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Piefed has a list of words they deem naughty built into the system. Fuck that bullshit. I'm an adult, I don't need some random nanny deciding what is and is not acceptable language for me.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It can be and is disabled by other instances.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm aware. But if people are going to criticize the Lemmy devs for their ideology which they don't inject into the architecture of their software it seems fair to point out the ideology of the Piefed devs that they do inject into theirs, even if said ideology is less egregious. I don't agree with the Lemmy devs on a lot of things, but I respect their ability to develop without such injections.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Also, the context here is automatic federation of communities - right? It's not a keyword filter in the sense that you're referring to.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Still an overreach, imo. Who are they to deem which communities are worthy, especially based on the "appropriateness" of the community name? It's entirely unnecessary, and Piefed would be better off without it.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Having looked at the words and code specifically in reference here, I think it's a copy and paste job from another local function (the local piefed.social retention rules)

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If it's some kind of carryover oversight, that does definitely change the perspective. That said, as it exists today my criticism of nannying remains valid, so now that it's known if it is simple oversight then the devs should absolutely now remove it to the fix the issue.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Basically piefed.social scrubs all posts and comments from those exact communities (that fall under those keywords specifically) after 6 months to save on space. Rimu (correctly or incorrectly) regards memeposting as mostly frivolous and not worth saving long-term.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Which word in particular are you inconvenienced by not being able to use?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Any and all. When I limit my language it is because I have chosen the words to restrict, not because somebody else has.

    I don't know what your goose image is supposed to suggest, but as an adult I don't need somebody telling me "fuck" is a naughty word.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    "Fuck" isn't censored.

    Which word is limiting your language?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Look, I don't know what this is, but I have no interest in whatever weird hostile form of communication you think you're having.

    I'm not an expert in this, but the list I read included any communities with "fuck" in the name. But regardless, as stated, nobody else has the right or authority to deem what is acceptable language, that's a social convention we all get to weigh in on together.

    But I have no interest in your weird goose-based hostility, so I'm just going to block you now, goodbye.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    So wait, is this another hub for Lemmy's servers? How is this different then just accessing Lemmy through a third party app? Is this a totally different platform despite accessing the same servers? I'm a bit confused.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Not really - while it is part of the Fediverse, it is not Lemmy. In that sense it's closer to mastodon or pixelfed than a different client, with the key difference being that since the structure/interface are so similar, they're much more easily integrated with each other, so most likely have already interacted with a lost or comment from a Piefed user on a Lemmy community without even noticing :) Different Lemmy clients still connect you to the same servers and accounts, while Piefed's are completely separate - although several Lemmy servers are running their own instance of Piefed too, on a different domain. So, you "access the same servers" in the sense of posts, comments, votes, and potentially server hardware, but not for your account and server software

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The good thing is, this is a federated service, and many instances are defederated from them if you want that. Also, they haven't added anything to the code that's bad, and it can be forked if they do.

    Meanwhile, piefed, while it seems nice, has issues too. The language they're using, while it is easy, so allows for easier contribution, isn't as fast/powerful. They also hardcoded a block list for things like meme communities, and IIRC "NoMoreMuskSpam", and things like that. This can be removed by admins, but by default they're blocked. It's pretty stupid.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    They also hardcoded a block list for things like meme communities, and IIRC “NoMoreMuskSpam”, and things like that.

    What the fuck?? Why??

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  • [+] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I see... Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I'll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I'm missing something obvious.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It's called instance and there are many. This isn't just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, ...) as well but that's a different story.

    You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That's hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It's just the same software and the software isn't the problem And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don't know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.

    So they technically aren't forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Sorry I'm only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I'm not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won't be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it's on my mind lol

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, it's been a week on my side, sorry.

    Do you see u/Ofiuco@piefed.ca's comment? Because they made quite a good argument. Software isn't as neutral as I made it look. There are features like blocking entire instances that can benefit different instances differently and I don't think it's coincedence that they promise and don't deliver on it. Also they do claim donations for software and hosting but how much they need and how much they get is anyone's guess. This is all basically a TLDR of this comment.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Ahh I see. So while there are multiple instances of Lemmy, all of which are under the shitty devs' thumbs at the end of the day, the mentioned Piefed and kbin are totally different things by different people with similar functionality but no bigotry? Or are they just different instances OF Lemmy like I'm posting from right now, in which case, what makes those two special?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Piefed and mbin (I think kbin is dead and mbin the successor) are on the level of lemmy in the sense that they are the software and there are different instances of them. So you don't just join piefed but you join one instance of piefed.

    From my understanding, neither is even a lemmy branch but both are their own software using the more general fediverse protocol (that also includes mastodon and others) so they are compatible, look similar but have different developers.

    And protocol refers to the data exchange format in a way. Think of it as a chess computer that outputs moves in the standard notation. Two computers can play chess together no matter how differently they are built and programmed inside as long as they agree on the communication. Same here. You have posts, comments, up and downvotes, ... but that's just the protocol. The program can work very differently. It's even possible to post from mastodon on lemmy (not the other way around tho because mastodon doesn't allow it, not for technical reasons) that's how different software can be and still communicate.

    I hope that makes sense.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I think that makes sense, thanks so much for the explanation. I should ask though, in that case, should I move myself over to one of those services? If so, which do you recommend? My account here is only new so now would be the best time for me to switch.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    The whole idea is to spread to different instances. Some have a geographic focus (US, Canada, Europe, ...), some a political leaning or other topics like queerness, literature, traveling, ...

    I recently joined anarchist.nexus but don't really use it yet. On the join page of every instance, you see a list of I think all instances with a description so you can choose which one fits best for you:

    https://anarchist.nexus/auth/instance_chooser

    Also, from my experience on lemmy, it doesn't hurt to have more than one account until you decided which works best for you. It's not that you lose any followers like on mastodon.

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