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[–] 91 points 9 months ago (30 children)

Why is this okay because they are straight? Imagine saying you thought your Trans friend was a man, when they are trying to present as a woman.

These kind of tests are so toxic, and serve nothing but to spark an argument and hurt feelings.

You are part of the problem.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    I don't see how those two are related at all and honestly treating them as interchangeable is... cringe.

    There is no harm in suggesting you thought someone was gay or straight, especially because sexuality has nothing to do with outward appearance and can be kinda nebulous to infer at all. If you're not comfortable with the idea of being lgbt+, how are you an ally? Nothing differentiates a gay man from a straight one, outside of attraction to other men.

    Whereas so much of trans struggles and validity relate to how they're/we're perceived. Do I pass enough to shit in the restroom that conforms to my identity?

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    So you think there isn't a lot of extremely toxic male culture that will make men feel invalid for not being perceived as straight? Because that shits everywhere. It's perfectly normal to struggle with that, feeling insecure about your self image has nothing to do with your support of others.

    And insecurities can come from very personal things and no one should be judged for them. Lying about how you perceived someone as a "test" is toxic as fuck.

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  • [+] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    I disagree about it not being remotely comparable. There's little doubt that on average it's gonna be far worse to misgender a transperson in that way (though "i thought you were x when i first met you" isn't really misgendering either since it's explicitly saying they're not that, but w/e we all know what we're talking about here) since there's a very high chance they have some degree of trauma associated with it.

    But I think in individual cases the "i thought you were gay" can be just as bad, so I do think it's entirely comparable. I think it's important to also think about the worst effect it could have, and it's such an unnecessary action that both cases are just toxic and never a good thing, so I don't think there's a need to rank one as worse than the other. (And ofc both can also be fine if it's clear everyones comfortable with it, and that's more likely in the gay case, but hopefully that's obvious).

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Did you skip over the part of it being completely unnecessary? Insults are a part of human communication, you can't just erase them, so of course it makes sense to classify some as worse than others. It's a fundamental part of insults even.

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  • [+] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    As someone agender this entire thread is wild to me. I accept any gender, any pronouns, and do not care how people percieve me. None of this seems offensive to me, whether people thought i was trans or gay or whatever. Pretty sure the offense is mostly just whether offense was intended.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    Pretty sure the offense is mostly just whether offense was intended.

    I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but since I read this sentence I understand why I dislike this suggestion. Saying something to your friend to see if they'll be uncomfortable is intending offense, imo. You should be kind to your friends and not give them shit tests, or else just don't be friends with them anymore. It honestly feels like OOP is suggesting your straight friend isn't really your friend, but a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    with very few, if any, exceptions, didn’t grow up being told they’re gay

    Except just about every guy who has ever been bullied. While the bullies usually don't actually believe that, it certainly explains why straight men get defensive about someone thinking that they're gay. Plus it's just inconvenient if you're trying to find a girlfriend.

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  • [+] -4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    IMO, it's a difference in severity, not in kind. It's a fairly regular thing for bullying victims to kill themselves or get seriously injured or killed by their bullies. Go a couple of decades back and out homosexuals, especially men, were exactly where trans people are now. Remember how the Republicans handled AIDS, or how male homosexual acts were literally illegal in many western countries until like the 90s or early 00s?

    Bottomline is, don't say your "friend" is a different sexuality or gender than you know they are, just as a test.

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  • [+] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [+] -19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Shit, you're right. Without allies like you, how would we learn and grow? Thank you for your insights.

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