Not The Onion

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[–] CXORA@aussie.zone 14 points 10 months ago (1 child)

That a jesus (probably) existed does not mean the jesus of the bible is that jesus.

Just like robinhood might be based on an amalgamation if real outlaws, the character of robin hood as popularly understood is still fictional.

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[–] HetareKing@piefed.social 4 points 10 months ago

I do think there's a meaningful distinction to be made between something being attributed to a real person and a fictional character being loosely based on real people, though. Like, I think we can be pretty confident that the events in the Epic of Gilgamesh didn't really happen (at least not literally), but if Gilgamesh was, like is generally accepted, a real person, the Gilgamesh in the Epic is most likely supposed to be that guy. Whereas Robin Hood was probably never meant to be any particular person.

That said, do we actually know whether all the stories in the Bible about Jesus were originally about the same individual? The new testament was written decades and centuries after the death of historical Jesus, by people who didn't even live in the region, right? So all the stories the authors heard would have come from traders and missionaries of Christian cults with vocal traditions. That alone is very long game of telephone, but I imagine every town at the time would have at least one person claiming to be messiah, and if one of them became a big enough deal that rumours around him spread beyond town, there would also be bunch of copycats. So a lot of room for mix-ups.

"I am Jesus, your king!" "I heard Jesus was buried like three days ago!" "I uh- I have come back from the dead!" And then he skipped town ASAP.

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[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

Some of the apocryphal gospels seem really embarrassed about the idea of Mary being a commoner/spinning clothes for money.

There are very old rumors about Jesus being the son of a Roman soldier who raped Mary.

There’s probably something we can peer at, through a glass darkly, about her somewhere there.

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 point 10 months ago

the roman's name (panthera) is a pun on virgin (parthena), according to an unreliable scholar i met

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[–] Twig@sopuli.xyz 1 point 10 months ago

"Promised me all the gold I could eat"

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[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net -4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Thank you for being the one to post that. It really bugs me when people say Jesus didn't exist and present it as if it's uncontroversial fact. Whether you believe in the claims about Him as a Messiah, a divine figure, et cetera are beside the point when discussing His existence. There is actual historical evidence to support that the figure existed and began a ministry around that time. Being anti historical is just bad practice, regardless of the side you're falling on. Historical Jesus is a fascinating subject.

Again, regardless of your view, love Him or hate Him, a guy was born, said some stuff, and died, and it literally changed the entire course of human history. Religions that reigned for thousands of years do not exist anymore because of Him, the most influential government to exist until the modern era was based on the idea of being the torch bearers of His legacy. Empires rose and fell on His word (or, His supposed words, depending on your point of view). Like... No matter what, it's a crazily interesting thing, and the idea that any one human can have a legacy like that is amazing. Let's not downplay it. Heck, if you hate the guy, at least acknowledge He was real so that we figure out how to prevent others from having their message of peace and love so distorted and causing so much grief.

A dude lived 2000 years ago and we're still talking about him, that's pretty incredible. Worth learning about. Same with other historical religious figures, like Muhammed, Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha, although we are slightly less sure he existed, though consensus is that he did), Adi Shankara, and others.

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[–] xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. Just because religions have ruined lives doesn't mean we can't acknowledge the historical significance of many of these religious figures.

I mean, glazing over emperors, philosophers, and other historical figures is kinda normal around here despite the same issue of dubious accuracy about their lives.

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[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 points 10 months ago

I don't really care about down votes, tbh. But disliking a figure and pretending they don't exist is ridiculous. "Stalin was awful! So he's fictional!"

... Yeah, bro. That tracks. Lol