Technology

hideshow 41 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (40 children)

But you won't know if it will bring them joy or not. But you push ahead, even in situations where people are stuck. It just feels self-serving.

hideshow 40 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (39 children)

But you won't know if it will bring them joy or not.

That’s true. Hard to predict the future.

I’d say it’s a lot more likely that joy or anxiety are the outlier cases, and just a kind of indifference, with a positive tone, is the baseline.

But you push ahead, even in situations where people are stuck.

And now we’re back to bad assumptions and straw men.

Fine fine, one more link.

https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0037323

Non-paywall summary: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/07/26/744267015/want-to-feel-happier-today-try-talking-to-a-stranger

hideshow 39 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago* (38 children)

Did you not earlier say how you initiate conversations with people even on planes?

hideshow 38 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (32 children)

Yes. What is your point?

hideshow 32 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (31 children)

But you push ahead, even in situations where people are stuck.

And now we’re back to bad assumptions and straw men.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what the bad assumption and straw man is when you yourself said that you're "the guy who takes a shot at a random conversation on the plane"

hideshow 31 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (30 children)

push ahead

These two words completely mischaracterize the situation.

Guessing you haven’t bothered with the links I posted, since you haven’t spoken to them and continue to just try to find ways to pick at some point that I’m not trying to make, but I encourage you to take a few minutes to read them with an open mind.

hideshow 30 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (29 children)

But you know there's a chance that they're bothered by you, that they're stuck in the situation and you still carry on with trying to connect with them. What wording would you use for the situation?

hideshow 29 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (28 children)

I like to think of it as giving people an opening.

Make a comment or two that invites discussion. If it takes, great. Maybe chat for a minute, maybe for a while.

If not, oh well, better luck next time.

Wo is interested and who is not is extremely easy to discern, in my opinion. The fact that you clearly think otherwise is not surprising, but I do think it’s easier than you give it credit for.

hideshow 28 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (27 children)

A lot of people pretend so as not to seem rude. Also you never know how the other person will react otherwise.

I know you find enjoyment in it, I'm just saying that planes and such places where people are stuck with you are pretty risky.

hideshow 27 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (26 children)

And I will respectfully point out that you seem to be arguing entirely from vibes and anecdotes.

hideshow 26 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (25 children)

You agreed that you never know how the situation goes. And I'm guessing we agree that people are stuck in planes. So why risk it, if you're going to potentially be making the situation suck for the other person, I'm wondering

hideshow 25 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (24 children)

why risk it?

Because there’s almost no risk involved.

So why risk it, if you're going to potentially be making the situation suck for the other person, I'm wondering

Answers to this question, and more, are provided in some of the links provided.

The chances of making “the situation suck” are exceedingly small. The chances it “goes well” are quite high. A couple friendly words between strangers. A story to tell later.

Of particular note

His curiosity led to a series of experimentsrevealing that train and bus commuters who interacted with other passengers experienced a more pleasant ride — even when they believed they would prefer the solitude of, say, reading a book.

It is fear that the person sitting next to us won't enjoy talking to us that makes us keep to ourselves, Epley found. But when we do talk to each other, those social interactions with strangers tend to be both less awkward and more enjoyable than most people predict.

You seem to completely discount this possibility, while simultaneously overblowing the risk.

hideshow 24 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago* (23 children)

It just seems a bit selfish to try and "connect" in a sotuation where they can't leave. I get that it is your thing but at least on a plane it would be bettee to just chill for the duration of it. After all nothing negative about that, they might try to connect with you if they're up for it

hideshow 23 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (22 children)

There may be a selfish component to it. Doesn’t make it a selfish act.

I get that it’s your thing

It’s my thing after I read a few of these papers (you can find the links, and read them if you like, they’re in my other comments) and started giving it a shot.

it would be bettee to just chill for the duration of it.

Yes, you have made it very clear that for you, you believe that this is the case.

The data show that a lot of people feel this way before they try it, but are pleasantly surprised after.

After all nothing negative about that, they might try to connect with you if they're up for it

Nothing negative about what? “Being chill?” I think you’ll find that I’m pretty chill.

You seem to think I’m nagging them for the duration, but as I’ve explained, it’s really more of creating an opening.

hideshow 22 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (21 children)

You won't cause anything negative by just chilling during the flight. Meanwhile, by trying to connect, you might make someone's travel worse. So if you value the fellow passengers, best move is not to risk it, at least not on the plane. Otherwise you're just gambling with their mood, which seems a bit shitty.

hideshow 21 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (20 children)

So if you value the fellow passengers, best move is not to risk it

There’s a lot of big assumptions built into how you think about risk if the only possible outcomes you can conceive of are negative.

at least not on the plane

Oh yes the plane. Because of the implication, right?

I just feel bad that your outlook is so sad for all of this.

hideshow 20 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (19 children)

Well you won't negatively affect them by not interacting with them. They are still free to talk to you, after all. The implication is a good one because they don't know what sort of creep or angry person you might be and how you would react to rejection. You're almost insisting on talking to the people on a situation you know might negatively affect them and where they are stuck in the situation and that just seems odd.

hideshow 19 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (18 children)

I feel like you’re just reiterating your last comment as though you didn’t read mine.

hideshow 18 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (17 children)

You havent really addressed it propeely imo. I just don't understand the mindset.

hideshow 17 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (16 children)

Would you care to address any of the articles with research and numbers that I claim back me up?

I see you don’t understand the mindset. I don’t believe you are trying to.

hideshow 16 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (15 children)

I don't get how the articles "back you up" in this point

You're almost insisting on talking to the people on a situation you know might negatively affect them and where they are stuck in the situation and that just seems odd.

What do the articles have to do with that?

hideshow 15 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (14 children)

That’s because you haven’t read them.

They have to do with the positive outcomes, which you continue to ignore, or treat as inconsequential.

A small chance of a negative outcome does not generally outweigh a good chance of a positive outcome.

youre almost insisting on talking

You insist on mischaracterizing my position. Asking somebody a question ir two is hardly as insisant as you keep making it out to be.

and that just seems odd

To you

hideshow 14 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (13 children)

So you're just gambling on their feelings, did I understand that correctly?

hideshow 13 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (12 children)

I suppose so.

And you have no notion about gambling theory or risk reward whatsoever? Am I inferring that correctly?

hideshow 12 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (11 children)

I don't want to make anyone's day worse. Gambling on someone else's feelings just seems icky to me.

hideshow 11 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (10 children)

That’s because you ignore the possibility of a good thing happening, and/ or dramatically overstate the risks of it making somebody’s day worse.

Let’s start with a silly example. Let’s say you had $1000 in your favorite currency. It was given to you with the purpose of you giving it to somebody else. If you do not give it to them, the money disappears.

Would you give this money away? What if I told you there was a 1% chance that it would make a persons day worse?

If you’re not giving the money away, then at least you’re consistent, I’ll give you that.

If you are, what about $100? What about 10$?

hideshow 10 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (9 children)

I'm not ignoring possibility of good things. I just don't think it's worth gambling that there's a negative outcome. If you don't do anything it won't cause anything negative and they're still free ro talk to you. I just wouldn't want to risk causing someones day to be shittier because I wanted to gamble.

hideshow 9 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (8 children)

So you won’t even engage with my silly hypothetical?

If you don’t think that any amount of “gambling” is worth even the smallest amount of risk, regardless of the possible reward, then I think you are arguing from an indefensible position.

if you don’t do anything it won’t cause anything negative and they’re still free eo talk to you

Are they? They’re not bound be the same constraints as I should be? It’s a risk they should be willing to take?

I just wouldn't want to risk causing someones day to be shittier because I wanted to gamble.

You’re mischaracterizing things again. I never said I was doing this “because I wanted to gamble.” I’m doing this because I believe that the chances are quite good at having a positive outcome for both me, and the person I’m interacting with. I additionally believe that the chances of a negative outcome are exceptionally low.

You seem to think that both the odds and the severity of a bad outcome are so serious, that the positive outcomes shouldn’t even be considered. Despite a solid day of this conversation, you have only vaguely pointed in the direction of what these bad outcomes look like, or how likely you think they are.

I can infer that you believe it to be extremely likely and extremely serious. I can point back at some of the data which interestingly seems to have failed to capture such a scenario, but it’s still not clear to me that you’ve bothered to read any of the links with studies I’ve provided.

hideshow 8 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (7 children)

It's like gambling on someone else's money. You could do nothing and the situation stays the same, or you could run the risk of losing their money. You feel the odds are good so you go for it, I would feel shit about losing their money just because I wanted to gamble so I don't do it. And they can gamble on their own too if they want to, it's not like by not gambling on their behalf you're preventing them from gambling.

I never said I was doing this “because I wanted to gamble.” I’m doing this because I believe that the chances are quite good at having a positive outcome for both me, and the person I’m interacting with. I additionally believe that the chances of a negative outcome are exceptionally low.

You're describing gambling...

hideshow 7 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago* (6 children)

I would feel shit about losing their money just because I wanted to gamble so I don't do it.

You would feel like shit if you lost somebody a dollar? How about one cent? Even if there was a 1/1000 chance? Even if they stood to win life changing money on the other 999/1000? Do you think they would be upset?

Is no amount of loss worth any amount of win? If that’s your position, then how do you even get up in the morning? Why is this situation so different at the bar? Likelihood of things going badly in a bar are far far higher in my estimation.

you’re describing gambling

I’m describing basically every choice you ever have to make in terms of gambling, yes.

hideshow 6 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (5 children)

I wouldn't gamble on someone else's money since it is not my money to gamble on. It should be up to them imo.

hideshow 5 child comments

parent

[–] jve@lemmy.world 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)

Ok then how about it’s no money, but they have to hear about how they didn’t get the money, and so they feel kinda bummed out, if they don’t win.

hideshow 4 child comments

parent

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

But that's not how it would go in a situation where you just don't make conversation. Or are you thinking they really want to have a conversation with you and are just thinking "oh gosh I'm so bummed that random person didn't talk to me"? I don't understand