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Biden asks Congress for $40 billion to support Ukraine, replenish US disaster aid and bolster border (apnews.com)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[+] -26 points 3 years ago* (30 children)

For the sake of peace, yes, I think they should be willing to make concessions. That's how negotiations work.

If you refuse to offer anything you aren't really negotiating. You're just issuing demands with no exchange.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    Oh yeah that worked so well for them in 1997 and 2014. Did people forget that peace negotiations have happened before and russia has broken the agreement every time?

    Why would Ukraine or anyone for that matter take anything the russian federation says as not a lie? Also I think that in this case it would be stupid for Ukraine to allow russia any ability to regroup.

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  • [+] -14 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    NATO broke the 1997 pact when it bombed Yugoslavia in 1999, in violation of the UN Charter.

    In 2014 Ukraine's legitimate government was overthrown by the Euromaidan coup.

    Before you screech your revisionist history at me, answer this: are you willing to fight this war until no one is left?

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    NATO is not Ukraine (yet), that makes about as much sense as say China getting to invade Iran because the UAE bombed north korea.

    I would think popular uprisings like in 2014 against rich oligarch rule would be more up your alley. Really though that also does not work as much of an excuse to invade another nation state.

    I think my screeching is quite pleasant compared to whatever mental gymnastics are needed to eat what you are selling.

    Oh and as I said above, Ukraine gets to make the call on when they are willing to stop fighting. Not myself, not you.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    "Popular uprisings"

    i.e. western backed color revolution

    Ukraine isn't allowed to make that call. If they do, America will stop supporting them.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    Yes, clearly the mass protests and large scale political movement was just a ruse by the US, because as we all know somehow everything ever is always the US.

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  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago* (3 children)

    The mass protests were legitimate (though fueled by Western media to some extent), but the government buckling was absolutely not. There was a lot more going on then just "people protest -> government collapses" lol

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (2 children)
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  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    Viktor Yanukovych, the legitimately elected president who had not resigned and had not been impeached, was unconstitutionally removed from power before that because he was forced to flee the country and parliament saw an opportunity to make a lot of money cozy up to the EU with a trade pact. Those elections had no constitutional basis, but we don't care about that because Russia bad.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (9 children)

    Thing is the only thing Putin wants is the eradication of all Ukraine.

    This is a war of annihilation. There are no concessions.

    Have a starting point from a man much more intelligent than I: https://youtu.be/mMZYKxgc9TE

    (And a video he did 9 years ago: https://youtu.be/A2nklduvThs)

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  • [+] -17 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    Ridiculous.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    Care to elaborate?

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  • [+] -8 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    I'm pretty sure Russia wants the majority Russian-speaking portions of Ukraine.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Russia wants to destroy Ukraine. Putin doesn't even believe Ukraine should be a nation.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 years ago (10 children)

    If someone came into your country and started to rape, kill and kidnap your people would you roll over and give them whatever they wanted to stop doing that?

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  • [+] -16 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    If the alternative was that they would rape, kill, and kidnap my people for the next 20 years without end?

    I'm not willing to fight this war to the last Ukrainian.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Say they do negotiate peace, what do they do next time Russia wants to invade?

    Give more up?

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  • [+] -10 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    It is possible to include certain guarantees within a treaty to make it painful for either side to break it, or to make breaking it extremely difficult. That's what Ukraine would have to demand from Russia - some kind of leverage or collateral to guarantee the peace holds.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    You are Ukrainian then? Because I think they are the only ones who get to make that call.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    The conflict is not occurring in a vacuum. They can pretend that they are the only ones who can make that decision, but without the West sending ridiculous amounts of money in arms and support, they wouldn't be in a position to make any decision. As long as they're entirely dependent on others, they can't monopolize the decision making here.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago

    See you have an issue in that argument. Without support (as that is what I assume would be the threat here) Ukraine has very clearly stated that it would fight on. You seem to forget that the west just lost a war in Afghanistan, who had no real foreign support.

    All that cutting support off would do would drag this conflict out and make it mostly partisan action.

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