Secretary of State Marco Rubio said on Monday that Ukraine would have to make concessions over land that Russia had taken since 2014 as part of any agreement to end the war.

Mr. Rubio spoke as he was flying to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, for talks with senior Ukrainian officials, and 10 days after a contentious White House meeting between President Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelensky. The Trump administration halted military aid to Ukraine after the blowup, which centered on Mr. Trump’s refusal to include any security guarantees in a proposed deal involving Ukraine’s natural resources.

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[–] 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (22 children)

I don't see any peace deal unless there is security guarantees, it is not peace without guarantees.

This just embolden russia to rape Ukraine again for more lands. Marco Rubio is promoting a forever war.

Ukraine guarantees were taken away when the nukes were taken away.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (20 children)

    Why do you put stock in security guarantees now?

    Ukraine had security "guarantees" when Russia invaded because they gave up their nukes that Western nation have not followed through on.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (18 children)

    Memorandum was not really a guarantee. NATO is more of a guarantee, nukes are more of a guarantee. Guarantee means NATO and/or Nukes.

    Don't need to believe it will work, Nukes and NATO has worked in the past to maintain peace along russia borders.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    NATO membership is off the table, virtually no NATO country wants Ukraine to join.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    Almost all of the NATO countries want Ukraine to join except for Russia's lapdogs, ergo: Hungary, Slovakia, and the US.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    Not really, even France & Germany are not so keen on Ukraine joining NATO now.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (7 children)
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    None of these statements actually back a Ukrainian bid to join NATO today.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Ukraine is currently in a war and already pretty early on after the start of the full-scale invasion there were discussions that a country joining during wartime is not something that seemed plausible but that a membership when the conflict is over is something that almost all members stand behind.

    You mentioned nothing about it being effective immediately in your initial comment and only claimed that virtually no NATO members want Ukraine to join.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Ukraine today consider Crimea, and the Eastern regions belongs to Ukraine. No country wants Ukraine, as defined in the previous sentence, to join NATO.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

    Now you're just moving the goalposts and playing with words. Your initial comment only said

    NATO membership is off the table, virtually no NATO country wants Ukraine to join.

    Which is absolute nonsense.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    There is no nonsense and no goalpost moving. Virtually no country wants Ukraine to join right now. The best you can find is prospects of joining NATO, or pathways for a future in NATO. If there is a vote for Ukraine to join NATO tomorrow, most countries would vote no. If there is a vote right after the potential ceasefire currently being discussed, most countries would still vote no.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    NATO is not a guarantee anymore. Trump openly said that if specific European NATO countries will get attacked by Russia then there will be no response.

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