I really wonder if people who hate on JS / Web Frameworks have made UI's in another language/toolkit. Everything but QT is awful compared to web.
Also I just contend that people have never really worked with a well designed system because most shit out there is either dead simple, or quickly became a mess because the devs and managers were out of their element. I can sympathize. I'm currently bashing my head against the wall trying to get PMs to understand fairly difficult concepts. I had a meeting today where it was me, 2 UX designers, and 2 PMs on a call, and the PMs literally couldn't functionally understand from either perspective the reason the propsed processes were needed.