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Americans: Never, EVER question again how Hitler came to power in 1933 Germany (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world
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Because you now did it to yourself.

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[–] 2 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

Everything you said has nothing to do with the left, they are basic as shit things that event center and center-right European parties would do. I mean, what does the sentence "did green energy" even mean to you? The US is one of the largest polluters per capita in the world, installing a few solar panels means jack shit. Starting to heavily invest in public transportation, putting forth serious proposals to reduce the use of plastic, etc. would just be a start.

Meanwhile, they were also running on an anti-migration platform, just not as bad as Trump - remember how Democrats were so proud of the fact Trump shot down a Dem proposal that would reduce immigration?

Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a "pull back troops from the Middle East policy", standing opposite to "Hillary the Hawk"?

Meanwhile, while most of the world condemns Israels actions, and millions of people in the US protest the US involvement in the ongoing genocide, both candidates are in favor of supporting and giving weapons to Israel.

If your argument is "but Biden was so far left", then you're a perfect representation of what is wrong with the Dem party and the US in general.

Edit: I almost forgot this beautiful (\s) fucking cherry on top: Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems. And you seriously wanna make the argument they couldn't have gone more left?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    You think that green energy isn't left? Debt relief isn't left? What planet are you on? Do I have to say left [of center]? Jeez.

    Yes it's a start. What do you expect? The entire power grid and entire vehicle fleet to be redone in 2 years? Things take time. And what happens now that the start is undone and we have to start from scratch in, hopefully, another 4 years. This conversation is shaping up to the old classic of you saying "but they didn't do everything, everywhere, all at once".

    Also, remember when Obama was elected on an anti-war policy in 2008? He even won a Nobel Peace Prize! And remember how Trump was elected in 2016 on a “pull back troops from the Middle East policy”, standing opposite to “Hillary the Hawk”?

    Jeez this is some select history. Obama won on "hope". Trump won because he appealed to the middle class and Hillary did not.

    This election shows that Gaza didn't matter one iota. Ukraine didn't matter one bit. They didn't even register, no one cared. Even your own human rights didn't matter. It came down to inflation, housing, and further on the right xenophobia. Clinton was right "It's the economy, stupid".

    If your argument is “but Biden was so far left”,

    Ah strawman. Well that bad faith means that this will be my last reply. No point in discussing when you make shit up.

    I did not say "so far left". Do a ctrl+f and you won't find those words. I said: "If the left doesn’t show up after Biden did green energy, IRA, student debt relief, non-compete clauses being banned via FDA, etc". If the left can't show up to support things like that, you're not going to get anything further left. Not gonna happen. Not how it works. You walk before you run, you test the waters before you take the plunge, and now that we saw it doesn't get you votes (midterms or next election), guess what fucking direction the Dems are going to sprint to? Yeah the Dems are going to sprint to the center. Because the left never shows up, or doesn't exist.

    Dick fucking Cheney endorsed the Dems.

    Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr maybe it was because even Dick fucking Cheney saw that Trump is a fascist. It wasn't based on policy, it was Trump's fascism. I'm having a hard time deciding if you're just horribly off base or bad faith. Either way, ciao.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

    You think that green energy isn’t left? Debt relief isn’t left? What planet are you on? Do I have to say left [of center]? Jeez.

    No, it's not left. I've already explained to you why. If I then drive a monster truck everywhere and eat steak for every meal, but then I install a solar panel in my house, does that make me an environmentalist?

    This election shows that Gaza didn’t matter one iota. Ukraine didn’t matter one bit. They didn’t even register, no one cared. Even your own human rights didn’t matter. It came down to inflation, housing, and further on the right xenophobia. Clinton was right “It’s the economy, stupid”.

    Jesus, I really do honestly try not to be rude, but the amount of stupidity in one paragraph mixed with the arrogance is off the damn charts. Firstly, Hillary, the person you're quoting, lost the fucking election; secondly, neither candidate in this election was against selling weapons to Israel, both of them together had less than 50% of American citizens voting for them, and one of them - the one that has the largest overlap with pro-Palestine voters - lost the popular vote to the Republicans, which hadn't happened to Democrats since 2004, and your conclusion is "Gaza didn't matter and here's another Dem loser's take on it!". Careful that you don't get hemorrhoids with how hard you're shitting these takes out.

    I did not say “so far left”. Do a ctrl+f and you won’t find those words. I said: “If the left doesn’t show up after Biden did green energy, IRA, student debt relief, non-compete clauses being banned via FDA, etc”.

    Yeah, which implies those are very leftist measures and policies. Would you say "if the leftists don't show up to support racial segregation (...)" - no you fucking wouldn't, cuz it's obviously not a fucking leftist measure, is it? And neither are those, they are measures even most centrists agree with.

    guess what fucking direction the Dems are going to sprint to? Yeah the Dems are going to sprint to the center. Because the left never shows up, or doesn’t exist.

    They'll sprint to the center because that's historically what they always do, in this and other elections, and in other countries as well - refuse to compromise with the left, appeal to center and center right, and then blame the left when they lose. This isn't news for me and plenty of other people budy, we predicted this might happen and what the reaction would be - the only thing I didn't predict is that so many people would still support Trump - but plenty of people literally saw the writing on the wall about the support for Kamala and called attention to it, but the democrats don't want to accept reality, just as they didn't accept it in 2016.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    the amount of stupidity in one paragraph mixed with the arrogance is off the damn charts. Firstly, Hillary, the person you’re quoting, lost the fucking election;

    I know I said I'm out but this is too good. It was BILL Clinton that said that. The irony LMAO. Ok peace.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Fair enough, nice gotcha, it still doesn't change anything that I said.

    Also, I forgot to add it to the other comment, and then I was just going to leave it out, but now I'm here again, so:

    Yes it’s a start. What do you expect? The entire power grid and entire vehicle fleet to be redone in 2 years? Things take time

    Fuck your "things take time", especially in a country that is both one of the richest and most polluting countries per capita in the world. A bunch of the world is becoming uninhabitable, storms become more frequent, some places are having a harder and harder time growing food, panama had to relocate people who lived on an island due to rising sea levels, and things are going to get exponentially worse, but "things take time guys, we can't rush it!"

    Let me ask you this: are you vegan, avoid using plastic as much as possible, use public transport/walk/bike whenever possible, try to minimize your consumption as much as possible, try to buy locally, and overall do you just try to ethically consume? Or are you one of those "it's the government and corporations who have to do something"? Because you certainly can't be the second and then, when talking about one of the richest and most polluting countries in the world, say we need to take things slow.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Comparing the democratic party with the left that exists in Europe is asinine. You can't leap the American Overton window overnight. As much as online leftists like to yap about social policies the reality, as indicated by this election, is that the American Overton window is far different than what you see in Europe and you can't leap into the same policies overnight.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    the reality, as indicated by this election,

    The reality indicated by this election is that less than 50% of Americans voted for either Kamala or Trump, and after Kamala had immense support and raised $1 Billion after replacing Biden, she attached to Biden, courted the center-right, and ended up losing the election.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    You're just restating your original claim without addressing what I wrote. You're stuck on your point for some reason. I'm telling you, the American Overton window - - as much as we online people want it to be-- is not aligned with what we see in Europe. Step outside social media and talk to real Americans or look at polls. Yes, some things poll really well like Universal health care. But when the same poll ran with a different question "would you be in favor of abolishing private insurance" only fraction rated it favorably. The reality is the US is not yet where we as lefties would like to see it.

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