▲ 83 ▼ Iran backs China-Brazil peace plan for Ukraine war (www.tehrantimes.com) submitted 2 years ago by hackerwacker@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml 85 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (27 children) Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (17 children) Yes that is indeed what happened. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Jeffrey Sachs: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Etcetera. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (15 children) Well you're just stupid then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (14 children) I might be, but lets put that to the side, why did russia invade ukraine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago If you're actually curious and have 20 minutes, try this video: Ukraine: The Avoidable War permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Demonstrate a good faith attempt to answer the question yourself. It's been two years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (9 children) NATO expansion permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent [+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago (8 children) I'm just happy there's no mental gymnastics anymore about them being the invader. That's something permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (7 children) Hey look who peeked their nose outside of their mind palace permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (6 children) Wat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (5 children) What part am I explaining? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (17 children) Yes that is indeed what happened. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Jeffrey Sachs: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Etcetera. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (15 children) Well you're just stupid then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (14 children) I might be, but lets put that to the side, why did russia invade ukraine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago If you're actually curious and have 20 minutes, try this video: Ukraine: The Avoidable War permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Demonstrate a good faith attempt to answer the question yourself. It's been two years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (9 children) NATO expansion permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent [+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Jeffrey Sachs: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Etcetera. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (15 children) Well you're just stupid then permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 15 child comments replies: [–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (14 children) I might be, but lets put that to the side, why did russia invade ukraine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago If you're actually curious and have 20 minutes, try this video: Ukraine: The Avoidable War permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Demonstrate a good faith attempt to answer the question yourself. It's been two years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (9 children) NATO expansion permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent [+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Breezy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (14 children) I might be, but lets put that to the side, why did russia invade ukraine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago If you're actually curious and have 20 minutes, try this video: Ukraine: The Avoidable War permalink fedilink source parent [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Demonstrate a good faith attempt to answer the question yourself. It's been two years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (9 children) NATO expansion permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent [+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago If you're actually curious and have 20 minutes, try this video: Ukraine: The Avoidable War permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Demonstrate a good faith attempt to answer the question yourself. It's been two years. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're the one that asked the question, "Because Russia just invaded out of nowhere, right?" It's clearly your turn to answer here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 years ago* I wasn't signing a contract to provide a service. I was mocking you for being oblivious/dishonest. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (9 children) NATO expansion permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent [+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[+] futatorius@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago No, you can't just place NATO missiles on the border just like the US freaked out about the Cuban missile crisis, which ironically was the USSR just retaliating because we placed missiles close to them in the first place. Also another reason for the war is that we directed Ukraine to kill their ethnic Russians in the 2 independent republics. Putin complained to the UN but nobody would listen. Also we couped their government in 2014. https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago Sovereign countries can’t choose their allies? Really? When long-time neutral countries have decided that not even being neutral will protect them anymore from invasion, your answer is that they should be invaded? History started only in the 2000s for you. I understand. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] rustyfish@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago (5 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent [–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent [–] carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) NATO expansion Which is not real. I am saddened you choose to believe in it. 🤔 (via this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO ...which will presumably amaze you) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rustyfish@lemmy.world -4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Please dear, don’t do that. It makes you look so painfully misinformed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago Posting maps and call it a day. Classic. Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? Your comment I replied to also doesn't say anything about the context of the expansion, it just says it "is not real". But if you want some context, I encourage you to watch the 20min video i posted earlier in this thread. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago* Any kind of context is for nerds I guess? He and I already gave context upthread, but here it is again. NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard: U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University. Robert Parry, 2015: The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences. The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world” Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago (8 children) I'm just happy there's no mental gymnastics anymore about them being the invader. That's something permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (7 children) Hey look who peeked their nose outside of their mind palace permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (6 children) Wat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (5 children) What part am I explaining? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (7 children) Hey look who peeked their nose outside of their mind palace permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (6 children) Wat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (5 children) What part am I explaining? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (6 children) Wat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (5 children) What part am I explaining? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (5 children) What part am I explaining? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (4 children) Preferably your whole comment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) What do I get out of it? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) New fone who dis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) boomer permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago Boomer who? permalink fedilink source parent