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NATO apologism (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 32 points 2 years ago (1 child)

He certainly played up to the role, presumably for egotistical reasons, but most of it was sabre rattling bravado.

My dude, this ignores like 40 years of him being the most unhinged leader in North Africa. He's always been a wild card on the global political stage, swinging wildly from befriending revolutionary leftist, and then immediately dumping them for right winged dictators.

The man literally tried to sell surface-to-air missiles to a street gang in Chicago...... No one had to make him seem crazy, he was crazy.

Now that doesn't mean I think the US should have intervened, but I don't think anyone had to really do any work to make him seem like an insane supervillain.

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  • [+] -17 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    That also overlooks all the times western powers were friendly with Gaddafi. They didn't mind him following his ascent to power, nor in the post 9-11 period when the U.S. and European countries restored diplomatic ties with Libya, and Western oil companies re-entered the Libyan oil sector.

    In 2007, the UK's Tony Blair visited Libya to strike up energy deals, and France's Sarkozy met with Gaddafi for military and economic agreements.

    Was Gaddafi a supervillain then too, or did he only become one when his interests were no longer aligned with the Western powers?

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    That also overlooks all the times western powers were friendly with Gaddafi. They didn't mind him following his ascent to power, nor in the post 9-11 period when the U.S. and European countries restored diplomatic ties with Libya, and Western oil companies re-entered the Libyan oil sector.

    That was my point about him swapping out friends sporadically. Gaddafi had massive swings in political alignment throughout his time as leader of Libya. The reason nato/un could actually make a move on his government without greater political ramifications is because he's burned every bridge across the political spectrum.

    Was Gaddafi a supervillain then too, or did he only become one when his interests were no longer aligned with the Western powers?

    Literally yes...... Is it that surprising the west would work with a crazy despot that has a bunch of oil?

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  • [+] -10 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    It seems we're largely in agreement then - that 1) NATO did, in fact, make a move on Gaddafi and 2) the West supported him when it was beneficial but turned on a dime the minute he stopped cooperating.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    that 1) NATO did, in fact, make a move on Gaddafi

    Not something I ever disputed? Would be kinda hard for a rebel force to get a cruise missile.

    1. the West supported him when it was beneficial but turned on a dime the minute he stopped cooperating.

    This I don't really agree with as it's a bit of a reductionist mischaracterization. Gaddafi literally funded terrorist attacks on the US in the 80s, which led to about 15-20 years of political disruptions between the two countries. They normalized relations again in the early 00s, with the US eventually going as far as to delist them from the state sponsored terror list in 08.

    It would be hard to describe that as "turned on a dime the minute he stopped cooperating". There's a reason why no one in the UN, including Russia and China UN vetoed the resolution.

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  • [+] -9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Gaddafi literally funded terrorist attacks on the US in the 80s, which led to about 15-20 years of political disruptions between the two countries.

    According to the Regan administration perhaps, but not according to intelligence agencies from several European countries. There was a concerted effort to link Gaddafi to individual terrorist attacks, like the Lockerbie bombing, although there was no hard evidence to support that.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago

    According to the Regan administration perhaps, but not according to intelligence agencies from several European countries.

    Again, a reductionist interpretation. There's been a lot of conspiracies over the years due to so many groups initially claiming responsibility. However the trial held in the UK and a recent one in 2020 both point to the same culprit.

    I think you may be talking about the bombing in Germany.

    Either way, the point is that Gaddafi has sponsored over 15 violent paramilitary groups in other people's countries. Not exactly going to be winning a lot of friends on the global stage by doing that.

    This is not what stable leadership looks like ...

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