this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 86 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

I find most people who complain about echo chambers are just mad that they aren’t allowed to barge in everyone’s door and start shouting their bigoted opinions like it’s some moral imperative we all give equal time to all opinions/ideologies.

Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers? Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It depends. Defederation for good reasons is good, defederation for bad or false reasons is generally bad.

As an example, having a strict and democratic defederation/federation policy has contributed to Hexbear having the most active trans community on Lemmy, and it's a good thing that there's an actively protected trans space free from bigotry.

At the same time, defederating from instances for political reasons under the guise of other reasons is generally a bad thing.

It's largely context dependent.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes. Doing something bad for a bad reason is bad, doing a good thing for a good reason is good.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

After that, things get more complicated.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I mean, "bad" in this case is completely subjective. There are large trans communities on other instances (blahaj being the most obvious one) and they have their reasons for defederating from Hexbear.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Hexbear defederated from blahaj, not the other way around. Either way, Hexbear remains the most active trans community on Lemmy.

I understand why anticommunist instances like Lemmy.world defederate from Hexbear, I just don't think it will help Lemmy.world in the long run, as Lemmy itself by nature is going to attract Communists due to its structure.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I dunno, I feel like anyone drawn to Lemmy for that reason will find lemmy.ml nearly as easily. If world suffers because of bad practices, well, that's the way it goes. At least the fediverse lives on.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They will, yes, but not always. Apps like Voyager assume .world as the default, causing friction when leftists join and run into silencing of their views.

Lemmy.ml is interesting, it's a reference to Marxism-Leninism, but it doesn't require users to be Communists like Lemmygrad, or leftists in general like Hexbear, hence the active population on Hexbear.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lemmy.ml is interesting, it’s a reference to Marxism-Leninism

Is it really? Others have said it isn't, that it's just because .ml domains were free.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Be an awfully large coincidence that the devs and admins of Lemmy.ml are Marxist-Leninists then, though I don't doubt the cheap domain played a part too.

Technically Lemmy.ml is focused on FOSS and Privacy, but requiring users to copy and paste exerpts from Principles of Communism (at one point) means it at least leans Communist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Honestly .world should have just blocked the most common shiposting Hexbear comms like chapotraphouse and dunk_tank as these are what most users found annoying. And I believe ther are more leftists on .world than one might think. There’s a great games comm on Hexbear too, and downvote away on the leftist game posts - Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes anyway!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The problem is that Lemmy.world doesn't want Communists using their communities, not that their users shouldn't be exposed to Communist posts, because they wanted homogenous liberalism.

There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.

Absolutely agree about Hexbear's games comm, easily the best gaming comm on Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.

Fair, that’s what I did.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Ada is okay with others chasing off people from the instance. Hard to say it's a pro trans one after seeing multiple witch hunts done against a particular comm by one user and Ada just supporting the witch hunt

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well that's definitely your own experience on federated platforms, but I wasn't speaking to that circumstance. I made a mastodon account and criticized our government's massive funding of Israel in spite of our lack of critical infrastructure and healthcare and got spammed with "Israel has a right to defend itself, and you 're a trumper if you think otherwise" type comments by people that post one response and then immediately block you. Which is laughable and couldn't be further from the truth. That is the perpetual echo chamber I was referring to from my personal experience.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers

Could be, especially if there aren't a multitude of sentiments there. That doesn't mean all sentiments must be present of course.

Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time

I don't think anyone said they aren't allowed to have such a space.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're in an echo chamber if you curate your home feed to only show one opinion and then never change it; it doesn't matter what the opinion is

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I’m not sure you understand a what a strawman is. This doesn’t relate to it.

No one is advocating for what the prior comment illustrated. It’s a caricature, a way people describe how others interact online while implying they themselves keep more diversity of opinion around them.

Most have varying degrees of interactions with people across the ideological spectrum in different spaces in their lives. The image that was drawn is so simplistic and doesn’t represent most people.

Just throwing up a screenshot of “echo chamber“ isn’t a meaningful response. If anything it’s patronizing and low effort. It says more about your grasp of this subject than it does about my argument.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is where you implied it was an attack. By saying that I was drawing an image of people when literally all I did was an explain what an echo chamber was. I never passed judgement on you, or said anything about the diversity of opinions I partake in. You decided all by yourself to be upset about a simple explanation of what an echo chamber was. If you're not in one, don't worry about it lol

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

You lectured me on what echo chambers are for no reason then. Is that how I should be interpreting this?

Did I ask for a definition? Did anyone?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Are positive LGBT communities echo chambers?

If you only ever interact with that one opinion, then yes

No! I didn't even care about what an echo chamber is! I just wanted to pass judgement on people who use this phrase without accepting any new considerations for what it actually means.

I think you might be protecting your peace a lil too close to the sun

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

You’re one of the few people struggling to understand this so I’ll be moving on.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Wow, dude. Get back to your echo chamber. You're brittle and shrill outside of it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I don’t remember asking you a god damn thing

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

How did you take this as an attack? An echo chamber is the exaggerated idea of hearing only a single opinion, as curated to your own beliefs. It doesn't matter what the belief is.

Obviously no one is 100% in an echo chamber, but it's also obvious that everyone is guilty of confirmation bias; and tend to prefer seeing their own opinions online. I never said anything about my own feed or accused you of being in an echo chamber. I just explained what one was because you implied that it's impossible to be in a liberal echo chamber

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I didn’t say it was an attack. I said it was a strawman. Just stop responding to things I didn’t say/putting words in my mouth.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Steve are you alright? You're so defensive against someone who's just explaining a concept you literally asked about

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

They didn’t give a meaningful response to my pretty clearly rhetorical question… Are you sure you’re OK? Are you just gonna be a patronizing ass? Can you please stop wasting my time playing dumb?

When did I say anything about attacking? Still waiting for you to show me.