this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
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sino
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Modern day socialism is not built by China picking a fight over every square inch of earth on the planet, it’s built by bringing up the standard of living for the global south and entering them into a separate economic block from the west.
A second economic block that will either eventually turn to inter-imperialist conflict or to a new vessel of anticommunism.
Turning what we can of it to communism sooner is to our benefit. I think it's naive to believe we won't see another period of retraction.
What reasoning do you have that this will happen? Or is this just a vibe? Also anticommunism sounds pretty harsh considering the biggest dog in that pen is China. Everyone on this planet understands that the “inter imperialist” conflict you’re talking about (which is mostly global south nations btw so wtf) is just nuclear war with extra steps. The only ones who don’t understand this are the Americans.
What outcome do you expect from capitalist development? These countries all magically reform into socialism?
They will develop along the same lines as capitalism always develops, and when the capitalist crises finally hits they will turn to fascism and a block will form to steer a fascist dog into attacking the communist opponent in the world stage. The level of unity that exists within this block will, in my opinion, be larger than it was last time because they will have learned from the mistakes they made, they have learned by now that nazi germany should have been their ally and not their enemy.
That’s my point, we don’t know what they’re going to do, but it doesn’t really make sense to say these places will at the drop of a hat start to commit acts of imperialism against each other when a not insignificant number of them already have access to nuclear weapons and do not follow a first strike protocol. China I would argue is capitalist, but I cannot deny they are making choices in line with Marxist thinking and overall they’re doing it to advance themselves and other much poorer nations. I cannot fathom why anyone wouldn’t follow Chinas lead. Ultimately this comment just sounds like “those savage browns will just start killing each other just you wait” when these places have literally never had a chance to develop without a cracker ass nation not on their neck. How about give them a chance to do something first before criticizing them? Also why are you comparing them to the axis? You understand I’m talking about BRICS right?
Oh. We disagree on that as well then.
What the fuck does skin colour have to do with this? Fuck off. Anyone believing that black capitalism will magically be different to white capitalism(or asian or arab or latam capitalism for that matter) is deeply reactionary, the thought of skin colour literally hadn't even entered my mind, not one fucking bit, but this is fucking stupid.
Context is important. But if you do believe China is socialist, then why do you assume these other nations won’t follow in Chinas footsteps considering they will inherently be tied to them economically? Doesn’t really make sense.
Because most of BRICS is non white, and before they’ve even done anything to cooperate and advance themselves you just said “won’t work, they’ll just turn into Nazis and imperialize each other”. Just give them a break because like I said this is the first time in a very long time these places actually have the opportunity to make their own way in the world and the fact they’ve largely chosen to look towards China is a pretty big signal. Basically why would you even spend one millisecond criticizing countries that haven’t even done anything yet, let alone think they’ll follow a fascist road towards imperialism when their biggest ally is a socialist nation?
Edit: I should clarify that I don’t think you’re racist or anything, I just think some self crit is necessary.
Mate what part of fuck off do you not understand. I am not reading nor engaging further this shit is utterly derailed and you can eat my ass.
and the other dogs are Russia, a post soviet gangster state; India, ruled by actual fascists; South africa, a state playing both sides to its advantage that hasn't fixed their economic apartheid and descending into reaction. They are our allies against imperialism of the west, but i have almost no faith that they'll become anything more than another economic imperialist force.
Believe me I understand what you’re saying. No one is saying these nations are without problems, but
The biggest and most powerful nation in this block is China and very little is going to change that. That right there will stop most of those ambitions for the most part in my opinion. On top of that nuclear war is the other factor to consider and unlike the west these places for all their faults generally don’t want to die so really the only path forward is economic prosperity, which China incentivizes. So far everyone has said that these places will act just like the west without really thinking of all the ways acting like the west is just going to ostracize them from a clearly better future. Could it happen? Sure, but I doubt it.
for me to agree with that, china must reign in its foreign capitalists. they're capable of doing that and they've done it in select cases, but they must do it completely. They're not in any way as bad as the west, but not nearly as good as the soviet union or a socialist country. They're not trying to combat unequal exchange, they're trying to make 'win win' situations.
im not saying i discard them, but im not championing them as the ones who will free our world. They're extremely important to subverting western international capital, but they do that by helping the national bourgeoisie.
This isn’t about freeing the world. The primary contradiction in the world today is the west vs the global south. China is helping them to not be economically subservient to the west and that’s the most important step towards building socialism in the present moment. Whatever happens after that is anyone’s guess, but all I’m saying is it’s very disheartening to hear that many people here believe the global south will just end up like the west.