109
New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist (www.middleeasteye.net)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/europe@feddit.de
87 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Applicants for German citizenship will be required to explicitly affirm Israel's right to exist under a new citizenship law which came into effect on Tuesday.

The new law shortened the number of years that a person must have lived in Germany in order to obtain a passport, from eight to five years. It will also allow first-generation migrants to be dual citizens.

As part of the shake-up, new questions were added to the country's citizenship test, including about Judaism and Israel's right to exist.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] -1 points 2 years ago (35 children)

This is a good decision. Antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. 4782 antisemitic incidents in 2023, which is 83% more than the year before. 58% of these incidents occured after Oct 7.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 35 child comments
    •
  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    While I don't doubt that more Germans are becoming more antisemitic, promoting zionism does not combat antisemitism. Lord Balfor (of the Balfor Declaration), was extremely antisemitic. He was very explicit about how removing jews from Britain and getting a shiny new colony were both positives.

    But also that statistic is useless because a significant number people arrested in Germany for antisemitism since Oct 7 were Jews protesting against Israel.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [+] -9 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    That article you linked does not contain anything controversial. No shit, "from the river to the sea" is forbidden in Germany and attending a forbidden demonstration where crimes are conducted has the risk of being detained.

    She was released shortly afterwards but says: β€œI didn’t think I would get detained for that – I was naive it turns out.”

    Don't act like people end up in prison here for criticizing the state of Israel. People get detained for a couple of hours in the context of demonstrations all the time. Stop derailing, the article from the Qatari news agency you linked does not add anything here.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    no shit, β€œfrom the river to the sea” is forbidden in Germany

    You understand why this is fucked up right? Is it also forbidden to say "Hawaii will be free" or "Free Tibet"?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Germans are clowns.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Not every german.

    But it's depressing every time I talk politics with one and it turns out they're a "leftist" who's actually a liberal, or an "anarchist" who's a zionist, or a "green" who supported ending all nuclear power (which restarted their coal industry), an "anti-imperialist" who only opposes Germany's enemies.

    I expect this level of ignorance from American liberals who've literally never had a thought outside bourgeois democracy, half of Germany was communist until 30 years ago, they don't have an excuse.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    Is it also forbidden to say "Hawaii will be free" or "Free Tibet"?

    Of course not. This is something entirely different. /s

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    It really isn’t

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I thought this is obvious. I'll mark it with /s now to make sure everyone understands.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    Yeah no in the context of a german explaining why rounding up jews and throwing them in jail for protesting Israel is no big deal, you gotta be really, really obvious when you're making a joke since we're already well past poe's law.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    From the river to the sea is not forbidden in Germany. There are several court rulings on this. Ironically, when Netanyahu wants a Jewish ethnostate from the river to the sea, that is perfectly fine for the same people who erroneously claim that saying β€ž From the river to the seaβ€œ would be forbidden to say.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    These statistic say little as the German police does not properly distinguish between antisemitism and anti-zionism.

    But regardless, if you are so extreme in your views that you can't accept the existence of the state of Israel in some shape or form, you are probably not a good fit for German society.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    I'm not sure what you want to imply here. I do not see the benefit in asking the offender why they beat up the Jewish person.

    I cited numbers from a study by RIAS (Wiki, German), this is not from a police statistic.

    The study distinguishes Isreal-related antisemitism, meaning the incidents were directed against the Jewish state of Israel and denied its legitimacy. This kind of antisemitism was 52%.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [+] -22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (12 children)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 12 child comments
    •
  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    Lol what?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [+] -20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    It is not even closely the same by any definition.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    by any definition

    The IHRA's definition does, so you can't say "any".

    That said, the IHRA definition was pretty specifically created to be zionist and a shield for Israel, and should be rejected on those grounds.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    The definition used by German authorities subsumes antizionism, i.e. denying Israel's right to exist as a special form of antisemitism.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It is quite reductive to say anti-zionism is just denying the right of Israel to exist. Yes, the state of Israel is a deeply zionist project but you can accept the reality of this state existing and still be opposed to the idea of zionism in general.

    I am opposed to the idea of colonialism in general but still accept the existence of states with a colonial history.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    I wonder what definition of antisemitism they use

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

    Just to give an orientation: denying Israel's right to exist, i.e. antizionism, including the Slogan: 'From the river to the sea – Palestina shall be free', counts as antisemitism, while criticising the Israeli government for killing civilians does not. Cheering Hamas killing Israeli civilians counts as appreciation of terror and antisemitism.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago

    denying Israel’s right to exist, i.e. antizionism, including the Slogan: β€˜From the river to the sea – Palestina shall be free’, counts as antisemitism

    Yes, if you accept the definition of antisemitism preferred by the Israeli government, that's true.

    It doesn't make it true in the real world.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    including the Slogan: 'From the river to the sea – Palestine shall be free'

    As it should, this phrase and it's Israeli counterpart "between the sea and the Jordan there will be only Israeli sovereignty" are often accompanied by calls for mass deportation at best and genocide at worst.

    These sentences are not bad on their own, but the parties from which they originate (Hamas and Likud) have transparent desires for war crimes and genocide.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •