Ukraine

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee 22 points 2 years ago (24 children)

Do you think a random Russian citizen who is trying to leave Russia has anything to do with this?

Many of the people trying to leave Russia are against the war. It is idiotic to shame civilians who have little to no power to stop the actions of their oligarch run government.

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[–] the_wise_wolf@feddit.de 43 points 2 years ago (7 children)

She says:

I can't stand it anymore because our real nationality is strong

Not sure what to make of this. We only have a video of an upset girl. Is she being treated unfairly? Who the fuck knows. All I know is that it plays perfectly into the Kremlin's propaganda: We are the good guys and the world hates us for no good reason.

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[–] CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I don't think Kremlin propaganda involves runaways seeking life elsewhere. Particularly their young women. That's a really bad look for Russia.

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[–] Glitterbomb@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Kremlin propaganda constantly involves polishing a turd until it shines. They're going to have that 'bad look' one way or another, how do they twist it to make it work for them.

Turds are all they ever have, and they shine them well.

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[–] the_wise_wolf@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Actually, it does. It says that the Russian people have nowhere to go. Their only option is to band together (behind Putin).

Edit: Oh, btw. I'm not saying that this video is definitely part of a propaganda campaign. She could also be a victim of propaganda.

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee -4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

The claim is that she is a civilian, not a soldier. The video in no way suggests that soldiers

are the good guys and the world hates us for no good reason.

Disliking the actions of a government is very different from disliking an entire people based on nationality.

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[–] the_wise_wolf@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Your line of reasoning is very hard to follow. You are alternating between soldiers/civilians and people/individuals. You are arguing against a point I never made. You are not engaging with my concerns. So let me state this again. The video is highly emotional, completely one-sided. Contains no concrete information. And fits perfectly into the Kremlin's propaganda. I wonder if all these Mexicans still hate her after she tells them that she disagrees with Putin and his war.

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee -5 points 2 years ago

Do you think Westerners should hate the Russian people (civilians) because Putin is waging war?

If you say no, then you are in agreement with the person in the video, and by your own logic, have fallen for "Kremlin Propaganda".

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[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 3 points 2 years ago

Russias "nationality" has boiled quite down to hail putin so there's that.

There is no "good old russia" any more.

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[+] iarigby@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago* (3 children)

You speak as if you believe Russia has freedom of press and right to openly protest. The fact is that the Russian state controls most of the public discourse, and any opposition is crushed. And you would place the blame on the victims of this regime?

EDIT: You seem like the type to believe Putin fairly won the election with 88% of the vote.

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[+] iarigby@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Putin did not have to convince anyone there that Ukrainians (and other neighbor countries) don’t have the right to exist as an independent nation.

This is absolutely not true. Many Russians have relatives in the countries which were formerly part of the Soviet Union. There have been many protests within Russia against the war, which were usually met with violent suppression. Many in opposition of the war fled if they were able to.

But I guess Russians just really want to fight against their foreign relatives, simply because they themselves are Russian.

there is a national identity that they have had for decades and centuries

Yeah, there was this one guy who was in power for like 24 years who was a part of the intelligence community before he became a politician. Before he came to power, the entire world wanted the nation gone (and still do). Crazy how having every western government hate you could be used to create a national identity.

for understanding just how much of the responsibility for the war falls on the nation and not just Putin.

If the Russian people are responsible, I guess we should start bombing Russian cities then. That sounds reasonable.

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[+] iarigby@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

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[–] rogerhaase@mastodon.social -2 points 2 years ago

@iarigby @cybersin exactly!

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[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I work with several, you are just a bigot.

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[+] iarigby@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

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[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

People are individuals who are more than the country and government they are from. If you believe that 99% of a country is the same, you are a bigot.

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[+] iarigby@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

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[–] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You said that people had "the fortune" of not meeting enough Russians and that less than one percent were in opposition. Perhaps you're are just sloppy with your language, but it sounds like you're just rocking the "one of the good ones" argument, so whatever.

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[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 years ago*

Do you think a random Russian citizen who is trying to leave Russia has anything to do with this?

No but that's not a defence for her entitlement. Did she say "look,I totally despise what Russia ia doing in Ukrainians and how its undermining other countires and I don't supoort that".. No, not once did she say that.. Fuck her. I'll save my empathy for the folks slaughtered in Bucha.

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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

I know they're subject to censorship, misinformation, and propaganda at home, but the Russian people still widely support the violent invasion and illegal war on Ukraine. That's why the world doesn't hold a positive view of Russians.

Regardless, this person was simply answering the question and not personally blaming a single Russian immigrant, so why are you shooting the messenger?

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[–] cybersin@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago

the Russian people still widely support the violent invasion and illegal war on Ukraine

How about the person in the video? Did you ask her? She makes no comment on her perspective of the war in the video.

So instead, without any knowledge of her personal views, bigoted people say she deserves to be hated simply because she is Russian, and everyone knows that all Russians love the war and want to eat children.

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[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

I completely agree. Not all people are as open minded. I know an Israeli-American with dual citizenship that protested Netanyahu at NYU. People are absolutely not defined by their government. Russian elections are clearly rigged, so it’s even less likely she’s in favor of Putin. I wouldn’t criticize her unless she personally spoke in support of his actions. Unfortunately, I know enough people to be aware that it’s just not how everyone operates.

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[–] Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 years ago

Her statements in the video suggest otherwise:

"[Russians] have a strong nationality", which to me means they identify with their country and consequently its government. This statement alone says she should be emotionally responsible for her government's actions as it indirectly or tacitly supports them.

"We are not an aggressive people". False. Your nation is currently waging one of a series of aggressive wars in the region of late and there are numerous Russian videos that show how common vehicular accidents have everyone involved (and more) exiting their vehicles armed with melee weapons (crowbars, bats, etc...). Not an aggressive people? Relative to what, the Mongol Horde?

Members of hostile Nations have a burden of proof to show they are willing to play ball with other civilizations. The very fact she's crying about the unfair treatment instead of asking 'why all the hate' and trying to dispel everyone's very reasonable concerns is another strike against.

If she actually sat down and learned what her country was doing to innocent Ukrainians, and publicly denounced their actions she would have my sympathy. Until then she is a citizen of Orkistan, raised to hate the West and believe her governments lies since birth and cannot be trusted.

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[–] Munkisquisher@lemmy.nz 12 points 2 years ago

It's also sending swarms of kgb assets into western countries to fuck with, media, elections, sabotage etc. There should be a MUCH higher barrier of entry for Russians

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[–] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

The killings / rape / torture is not just the president's deeds.