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[–] 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If I asked an AI to write a text on the topic “Programming is art”, that thought process wouldn’t happen. I wouldn’t experience the same emotions that come with writing it myself. For me, writing is art that I pursue regardless of money. I think people who enjoy writing code feel the same way.

Huh. The turnaround given the top comment here is interesting.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Where this falls flat for me is, opportunities to write code that people will be willing to experience directly are rare. Much of it doesn't even allow them to do so, or at least programmatically crams it all together in an unintelligible mess (ie. the javascript rendering a typical website). How can something be art if the audience is kept away from it? But even when it's like that, people will still do it without a financial motive. You can still have a result in mind and go through the process of finding the shortest path to it, and that can still be art, even if some of the materials aren't. Even if it's not art, it's exercising power, it's desirable regardless of money.

    That said, I do think there is something really special about code as writing, where it is written to be read and understood and making full use of it necessarily entails doing so. Shared awareness of abstract structures is really underrated.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    For a lot of open source projects, there is a significant audience viewing the code itself rather than just what it does. There's encouragement for the user to open the bonnet and look at it and also tinker with it themselves. Even if you don't do that, there're still ways that the craftsmanship can show through and leave the user thinking about how it was made and how it works, and there's plenty of conventional art where the point isn't to think about the final product but instead what went into creating it.

    As for the minified JavaScript in a typical website, it's not that different to graphic design where achieving a purpose for a business can come ahead of any priorities related to being art. Even if we say for the sake of argument that graphic design for commercial purposes is never art, it doesn't automatically mean that anything else that uses the same techniques, like drawing, can never be art.

    There are also kinds of art that people produce that are never intended to be experienced by anyone else, e.g. a doodle in a diary, so I'd say there could still be art in code that was only ever seen by its creator and which was totally obfuscated when given to users as an app or website.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    As for the minified JavaScript in a typical website, it’s not that different to graphic design where achieving a purpose for a business can come ahead of any priorities related to being art

    I guess the main thing I want to get across though is, there's more here than just these two types of motivations, the instrumental business coder and the beauty driven purist, and this isn't just about AI, there are so many potentially ugly tools and practices out there that are widely used anyway. Personally as a hobbyist who doesn't program for money anymore, I'm going to do things the way I want to do them and the main thing I normally want to do is get something working quickly that I can see how the top level concept works in reality before I get lost in the weeds and lose interest. I have (often strong) feelings about the code itself, and really appreciate seeing something done the way I feel it should be, but these are situational. And they are tied to how the code itself serves its purpose. For instance a case where the user cannot or should not have to trust the developer, and so the overwhelming focus of the design is accessible verification of the application's security properties, that's awesome to me. So when the author of the blog post says this:

    But there’s another type of person. These are true programmers who write code regardless of income. They write code simply because they can’t help but write it. It doesn’t matter to them how much money they make from it. They might work on open-source projects that will never generate any income for them.

    They enjoy writing code, solving development challenges, designing, figuring out the logic, fixing bugs, and understanding the entire system as a whole. They enjoy the process itself. And they’ll never hand that over to AI agents.

    I think they are missing some stuff. This can't be reduced to just being about isolated enjoyment of the process. We have a relationship to the software we write and use, and the nature of that relationship matters and has consequences. And caring about that isn't synonymous with use or rejection of any particular tool.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    Far more to art exists than what you see as an audience member - when you watch a film, you do not know or care about the camera the cinematographer used, but it shapes what you experience. When you go to a live music show, you can't hear the cues and countdowns in the performer's ears that make sure everything happens in perfect time, but they are as essential to the performance as the lights that colour the stage. And yet it is a part of the art nonetheless - something does not have to be seen to have meaning or to be part of a performance.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    the Devil whispered behind the leaves, "It's pretty, but is it Art?"

    The Conundrum Of The Workshops by Rudyard Kipling

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    Regarding the last paragraph:

    If you’re thinking without writing, you only think you’re thinking. -Leslie Lamport

    Regarding the rest:

    It seems like he’s really only arguing that some programming is art. I’d argue that nearly all programming is art. And that all art is political. Therefore, nearly all programming is a political act.

    I think that framing does a better job of explaining why some devs are not merely indifferent to AI coding but view it as a threat to the future of computing. But the author seems to be pro-AI, so I don’t think he can really put himself in that headspace.

    Edit:

    I was just reflecting on how exactly programming is an art form, and I related it back to the way I usually explain how games are art.

    In a game, unlike in a book or a movie, you don’t just witness what’s “supposed to happen” — you can personally interject and ask “what if this happened instead?” By offering you the ability to actively inspect the game’s world from any angle you choose, it can create a deeper sense of the shape of the elements and themes of the game.

    Code is similar. Any non-trivial chunk of code invites dozens of “what if?” questions, and the way the author chooses to handle each of those scenarios expresses some kind of philosophy about how the world should be. (Not just what the code currently does, but how it encourages or discourages certain kinds of edits.) These scenarios often have mutually-exclusive options, so it’s not possible to do the “proper” thing in all conditions. Trade-offs are inevitable, and so the code becomes a window to the values of the coder.

    I think that part right there is why there’s such a gap between open source sentiments toward AI and enterprise adoption of AI. For FOSS code, the esoteric behavior of the edge cases of a subsystem’s subsystem is not a chore but a moral test.

    In a megacorp though? The answer the corp wants is “whatever everyone else does”, or “whatever maximizes revenue”, or “whatever minimizes liability”. You kinda know the morality of the biz before you even consider the specific question. It’s not surprising, it’s not interesting, and delegating to a chatbot whose morals run on autotune doesn’t change much.

    It is still art, and it is still political… but it’s Walmart home decor aisle art, and the politics of a Coke ad.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    I honestly think trying to define programming as art is just an attempt to unnecessarily elevate it. Programming is utilitarian. It is meant for a specific practical purpose. It does not reveal a shared human experience the way a movie, book, or game does. I have no need to convince myself, a professional software engineer of this because I am perfectly happy accepting that what I do is useful and do not need to try to put myself in a category with artists.

    All the author is saying is that people enjoy programming. I also enjoy eating. Is that an art? I even have my own "eating style" in that I like to eat food in specific order, combine two items into one bite, the way I build a bite, etc. But I'd never try to elevate it because I'm a normal person who doesn't waste brainpower trying to make myself feel special.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    If you're defining programming as simply translating an algorithm. Into code as is, sure it isn't art. However, designing abstractions and the structure which allows said algorithm to work with various parts of a program seamlessly and beautifully can be art.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 week ago (9 children)

    Computer code is not art. It has no aesthetic quality. It's generally not even seen and frequently hidden.

    It's engineering - you don't need to get all up yourself by claiming to be "artists".

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Programming is more than code

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  • [–] -5 points 1 week ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    The story is about programming, not just code. Your comment suggests you believe programming is only about writing code.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago* (1 child)
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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    As someone who has performed in orchestras, hosted touring musicians, shot video onstage at festivals, livestreamed events, and worked with photographers, sound engineers and producers — Computer programming and software development is just as much art as any of them. Calling what we do engineering is a poor excuse to forgoe solidarity with our fellow creatives.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago

    Your bonafies don't impress me.

    Coding is not an art. It's creative at times but it's categorically not an art. The output from coding is not artwork. Code is not a work of art. It has no aesthetic quality. It's used to create software.

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