Debates about “real socialism” are obscure pursuits of the intelligentsia, not persuasive programs that attract support and build sustainable coalitions by fixing the problems created by capitalism, with the goal of replacing it.

This is not a good argument. If you want to actually replace capitalism (and not just have Your Guys win elections for the sake of social democracy) you do need to understand what is and isn't socialism.

But now people are already using this shit to defend entryism, tailism, etc. as though that's really what was lacking here.

I’ve fully come around on socialists running as Democrats. The DSA is a political party in the traditional sense of the term, the Democratic Party is not.

The Democratic Party is not a true political party, with an ideology and dues paying members who it has the ability to exclude. There’s no requirement to join, and no way to be kicked out. All you have to do to be a Democrat is tick the D box when you run for office. The Democratic Party is an apparatus of the US political system, in the same way that the House of Representatives is.

My biggest issue with the DSA running as Democrats is that they should also be running as Republicans in districts where that makes more sense. In fact, the Republican party is even less of an actual political party than the Democrats, and has basically no system internally to exclude people they’d like to exclude. There are no super delegates in the RNC.

I'm already tired of the Ultra moniker and it's only been like a week since they moved on from tankie. I find it really odd to be against electoralism in the Empire when that's where the masses are. Elections have a long history and people love voting.

The reality is once your candidates win and invariably they are tied-up by the systemyou have something to point to. When they don't follow through on their promises you can once again ask for more and point to elections are not enough. A win-win for organizers. Even Kshama's long standing criticism of the progressive Dems can only be done because they won elections. It gives all of us a frame of reference, including those in power.

But anyways the article is mid. Kshama and those around her are awful at organizing the masses, but good at getting a select few to be devout to the Kshama banner and that's the last thing we need. Organizers talk about the $15 min wage they did more than a decade ago (in collaboration with other orgs and unions) as their big claim. There have been no new leaders that have come from their movement and anytime a new socialist steps up outside their org in the community Kshama immediately comes out to shit on them. I really hope they go away, but I know they have the funding to continue fucking up organizing for a long time.

PSL are not Trots, Trots whole MO is to be sectarian.

Reading this made my mind numb. Of course she couldn't do the impossible. I the end of the day I don't believe in electoralism and like the Bolsheviks leftists need simply to be organized and ready to seize in a crisis instead of trying to win votes in a bourgeois government structured to prevent shifts in power. If it weren't for the crisis in the second government and the first world war they would have never seized power and established a Communist government. The same is going to have to happen in the US with the collapse of the US financial empire.

another banger from platner left

(genuinely, compare and contrast platner nut huggers (jacobin, assembled podcast crowd, hasan piker, aryan grim) on the “left”, and those who now gleeful about kshama eating shit, as well as majorly ignoring her existence (last time i checked fedcobin published about kshama in 2022))

Wow, what a trip. Let's talk about what absolutely, positively, did not happen.

As the editors of Left Voice reminded us, Sawant was a member of the ultra-left Trotskyist group Socialist Alternative, which splintered over the irrelevant question of endorsing Bernie Sanders in 2016.

Whatever Left Voice says about it, the split did not come from a debate over endorsing Bernie. The split came when Sawant's faction purged a large number of their most active members, including her own campaign manager from her Seattle city council race, from Socialist alternative. Why were they purged? Because they wanted to dual card in DSA. The CWI, which is SAlt's tradition, stems from the "deep entryism" of the British Militant faction of the labor party in the 80's. In carrying on with that tradition, a large group of SAlt's leaders surmised that entering DSA in order to build a Marxist tendency within it, was an important task to combat the reformist nature of DSA. The Sawant faction disagreed and purged them, calling them opportunists, liquidationists, etc.,

The purged faction did join DSA and formed Reform & Revolution caucus, which succeeded, along with other caucuses that emerged around the same time, to establish a left wing majority on the NPC and many central committees. The former SAlt faction published a rather good book on DSA, which gathers views from all over the org and is being used in education programs all over the country.

Like okay, its a criticism of the sectarianism of Sawant, and I agree, she is a sectarian crank. Her campaign was run like a fucking cult, which we discovered when we met a group of very well meaning volunteers for her campaign, who she purged for working with DSA.

But I find it interesting that there is then this long diatribe against Trotskyism which makes up the majority of the article. And I've read almost this exact article before, several times in fact: when the purged SAlt faction tried to join DSA. All of the sudden, these DSA rightists become the most stalwart defenders of Stalin. And to be clear, R&R currently has two members on the NPC, and was deeply involved in, not sectarian ultraleft opportunism, but instead, organizing the first NPC majority in 2023, passing the anti-zionism and partyist resolutions in '25 (actually the R&R partyist amendment took a much more confrontational posture toward the Dems, but MUG's "party surrogate" orientation won out, still a partyist direction though) , and co-writing the Workers Deserve More program which is stirring up political discourse among the working class in the media in a way we haven't seen other than with electoral wins. Always pushing for a more revolutionary message, and a break from the Democratic party.

Hardly sitting on the sidelines and complaining. This is the same tradition as Sawant, different approaches, but two very close strains of American Trotskyism. But does the author care about any of these very real dynamics in DSA? No, instead he decides to call PSL Trotskyist (LMFAO, what is credibility even), and spin a yarn of abstract doom and gloom portent about Trotskyism and ultraleftism.

Also important to note that Trotsky never appeared at the Dies commission, and rejected the commission's offer to send a rep to visit him in Mexico.

Any valid criticism of Sawant gets lost in his utter derision for accuracy, opportunistic left gestures, and incurious agenda. And frankly, that's just how deranged the DSA rightists are.

It's clear that Hexbear's politics don't match my own. I'm fine lurking here but is there a Hexbear type place that's more positive about electoralism, DSA, and more pragmatic organizing? No shade on this part of the left. It's just not where I am.