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submitted 3 years ago by sam@lemmy.ca to c/linux@lemmy.ml

Old but gold. posting for anybody who hasn't seen this yet.

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[-] chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org 59 points 3 years ago

I'm particularly amused by the pro-NVIDIA "it just works" comments. Compared to what exactly? With AMD, the 3D acceleration driver is bundled directly into VESA, so it's already ready & working before even the first-boot of almost all desktop distros. That's how drivers are supposed to work on Linux and it has taken NVIDIA 10+ years (and counting...) to get with the basic program.

I applaud the long overdue decision to move their proprietary firmware directly onto the card and making the rest of the kernel driver open-source, but I'll remind you folks of a few things:

  • The open source driver is still in an alpha with no timeline for a stable release
  • NVIDIA has so far elected to control their own driver releases instead of incorporating 3D acceleration support into VESA

NVIDIA had to be dragged screaming to go this far and they're still not up to scratch. There's still plenty of fuel left in the "Fuck NVIDIA" gastank.

[-] Fryboyter@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 3 years ago

I’m particularly amused by the pro-NVIDIA “it just works” comments. Compared to what exactly?

Compared to nothing. I have used Nvidia graphics cards under Linux for many years. The last one was a GTX 1070. In order for the cards to work, I had to install the driver once with the command pacman -S nvidia-dkms. So the effort was very small.

By the way, I am currently using a 6800 XT from AMD. I therefore don't want to defend Nvidia graphics cards across the board.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Nvidia, many people do not judge objectively. Torvalds' "fuck you", for example, referred to what he saw as Nvidia's lack of cooperation with the kernel developers. And i think he was right. But it was never about how good or bad the graphics cards were usable under Linux. Which, unfortunately, many Linux users claim. Be it out of lack of knowledge or on purpose.

Since then, some things have changed and Nvidia has contributed code to several projects like Plasma or Mesa to improve the situation regarding Wayland.

[-] chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

Compared to nothing. I have used Nvidia graphics cards under Linux for many years. The last one was a GTX 1070. In order for the cards to work, I had to install the driver once with the command pacman -S nvidia-dkms. So the effort was very small.

Kernel modules work until they don't. I'm genuinely glad that you've had a good experience and -- despite appearances -- I'm not interested in provoking a vendor flamewar... but the fact remains that among the three major patterns (builtin, userland, module), modules are the most fragile and least flexible. I'll cite this response to my parent comment as an example.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Nvidia, many people do not judge objectively. Torvalds’ “fuck you”, for example, referred to what he saw as Nvidia’s lack of cooperation with the kernel developers. And i think he was right. But it was never about how good or bad the graphics cards were usable under Linux. Which, unfortunately, many Linux users claim. Be it out of lack of knowledge or on purpose.

That's a fair point, but to a certain extent I think this overlooks the importance of developer sentiment on a project like Linux. Take (Intel) Macbooks as an extreme example: kernel developers liked the hardware enough to support it despite utter vendor indifference. It's clearly a case of hypocrisy compared to NVIDIA who (at the very least) participates, but at the end of the day people will show love for the things that they love. NVIDIA remains unloved and I do feel that this bleeds through to the user experience a fair amount.

In any case, you're right to say that legitimate criticisms are often blown out of proportion. Developer problems aren't necessarily user problems, even if we sometimes romanticize otherwise.

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

I'm messing with shitvidia now on a new AAA laptop after people said it just works. I just spent all day trying to setup EFI keys for secure boot because shitvidia doesn't sign their kernel drivers module. Plus their drivers are outdated and their documentation is terrible. I failed today because Gigabyte is another shit company that has a proprietary (theft) bootloader set so that no one can lock the UEFI secure boot with any PK except theirs. I can run Fedora's key issued by Microsoft to run it with secure boot enabled, but then I can't use the god dam GPU I bought the piece of shit for in the first place. Shitvidia will always be shitvidia. This proprietary bullshit is straight up theft. It should be illegal to sell anything with digital reservations of any kind. Dealing with all this, I think Stallman was ultra conservative right wing. Fuck these criminals.

[-] filister@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago

The problem is that Nvidia's software stack is much more advanced. For example machine learning acceleration, CUDa is miles better than Rocm and widely supported. I wish AMD were more serious about GPUs and made greater strides, but they overslept and let Nvidia become a de-facto monopolists with their anti competitive/consumers strategies and closed source strides.

Nvidia is the new Apple, unfortunately.

[-] kronarbob@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

I believe that in addition, Nvidia support for wayland was late compare to AMD.

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[-] CannedTuna@sh.itjust.works 33 points 3 years ago

Man… I get the inspiration for the sites name, but Piped absolutely sounds like it’s a porn website.

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 12 points 3 years ago
[-] sam@lemmy.ca 7 points 3 years ago

So tempted to buy a domain and do this

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago

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[-] nothendev@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 years ago

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[-] neardeaf@lemm.ee 11 points 3 years ago

Check out our alternate link on blacked!

[-] ghariksforge@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago

Linux porn sounds kinda cool.

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago

Step brother, help me compile the kernel please!

[-] CannedTuna@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 years ago

Linus Torvalds porn, however, does not. But hey whatever floats your boat.

[-] n33rg@beehaw.org 10 points 3 years ago

I recall this from around the time I basically gave up dealing with Linux and Nvidia chips. At that time, I felt I couldn't agree more. Has this improved in recent years at all? With Nvidia getting more into data centers as their focus, I figure Linux has to be a focus, no?

[-] nous@programming.dev 8 points 3 years ago

Things have improved a lot in the 11 years since Linus made that statement. For the most part Nvidia drivers just work. They have even released some opensource drivers fairly recently that will go a long way to making things even better, especially for the existing OSS drivers.

But they are still not perfect. They do keep doing their own thing for years before finally giving up and doing what everyone else is. The latest of which was the EGL Streams API nvidia created for wayland where everyone else was using GBM APIs which forced many window managers and applications to have to explicitly support nvidia drivers. But they have now switched to GBM like everything else (though last I heard their implementations were far from bug-free, things have likely improved since then those as that was over a year ago now).

[-] redcalcium@c.calciumlabs.com 3 points 3 years ago

Nvidia cards are mostly working fine these days as long as you're not using Wayland. If you're using Wayland, be prepared to encounter lots of minor annoyances, and perhaps some bugs that completely break your workflow depending what you're using Linux for (e g. on server you don't have to deal with sleep issues, but in desktop it's an annoyance while on laptop it might be a deal breaker).

[-] SapienSRC@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago

I recently realized, while dealing with some screen flickering with the most recent Nvidia drivers, that I had never used Linux without a Nvidia GPU. I’ve always had them in my computer so I always installed the driver. Lately I play mostly older games so I decided to remove the GPU and let my i9 sort out the graphics.

When I say it was a NIGHT AND DAY difference in overall quality I’m not kidding. Everything was buttery smooth and any lingering thoughts of missing Windows faded away. Honestly felt like I bought a new computer.

Now I’ve decided to sell my Nvidia GPU on eBay and either grab an AMD card or be bold and pick up an Intel Arc 750.

So in short, to echo Linus himself, fuck Nvidia.

[-] sam@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 years ago

I've only used one AMD card with Linux and it was so smooth I never thought about it. Lately I've been using nvidia for one year and I'm losing my sanity with it. Switching back to AMD next week.

[-] Herbstzeitlose@feddit.de 2 points 3 years ago

This is just a circlejerk now.

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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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