this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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The French National Assembly on Thursday unanimously adopted a bill aimed at restricting the manufacture and sale of products containing per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances — also known as PFAS or “forever chemicals.” The MPs, backed by the government, voted to exclude kitchen utensils from the scope of the text.

Thanks to an intense lobbying push, manufacturers of frying pans and saucepans — including the SEB group, which owns Tefal — are exempt from this ban under the proposed law penned by French Green MPs.

Majority groups initially tried to delay the ban on kitchen utensils until 2030 — a timetable refused by the French Green MPs who instead suggested an exemption until 2026.

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[–] [email protected] 264 points 7 months ago (37 children)

Sounds great, let's ban it in every form except the one we literally eat...

[–] [email protected] 52 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Actually it's in a lot of food wrappers.

And those aren't as durable as cooking utensils. If you don't scratch your pan with a metal fork and don't use it for two decades, it's apparently somewhat safe. Not according to the companies, I'm not shilling, Last Week Tonight had a point about it on their episode about PFA's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU

I'd personally love to not consume any fucking PFAS, but I also understand that this French thing is still a massive step forwards for regulations on the matter.

Tldr it's still a win

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That stuff sticks to (aka reacts with) literally nothing. That's the point of it. The whole innovation of nonstick cookware was the fact they got it to stick to something. It’s not even dangerous if you ingest it, it doesn’t react with anything so it just comes back out.

What IS dangerous is the by products and intermediate products, as well as the stuff that comes off if you overheat it. (And also, like you said, when they get old)

This whole movement against non-stick is alright, but so many people do it for the wrong reasons. If you have nonstick, just use it and don’t buy nonstick next time. Throwing away perfectly fine cookware like that is like boycotting charmin by flushing down all your remaining rolls in one go and going to the store to buy new toilet paper from another brand.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (12 children)

so it just comes back out.

Eh... does it?

https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-how-long-hazardous-forever-chemicals-pfas-stay-in-blood-2023-3

It can take five hours for your body to filter half the amount of caffeine or alcohol you've consumed from your blood. LSD is a bit faster at three hours.

BPA has a similar half-life to caffeine and alcohol, but arsenic can take up to 10 hours.

Toxic metals like lead or radioactive polonium, take months to halfway leave your blood.

But PFAS surpass all of these other substances. Some of the PFAS that have been studied — PFOA, PFOS, and PFHS — can take over seven years to reduce by half in your bloodstream. It's no wonder they're called "forever chemicals."

I still use my non-sticks, but like you said, I'm gonna buy non-PFAS cookware the next time I need to. I'm in no panic about my pans. What people probably should pay more attention to is PFAS in clothing. This might be a tad sensationalist as The Guardian often is, but eh, with a grain of salt: https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2023/jul/02/fashion-chemicals-pfas-bpa-toxic

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[–] [email protected] 155 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fucking teflon lobbying wins wtf

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Stoneware ftw. Couldn't pay me to go back to Teflon.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Cast iron FTW. Seasoning makes it non-stick, and it's so much easier to clean compared to other cookware, not to mention it holds a fuckton of heat to give everything a nice sear, and I can put it in the oven.

I've never used stone pans, though, so IDK how they compare.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (11 children)

Do tell. Stoneware as a brand name, or material?

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[–] [email protected] 88 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Eh, at least this will reduce the amounts of PFAS being produced. I mean, teflon pans at least actually have a useful purpose, rather than things like PFAS coated burger wrappers.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (23 children)

Barely useful. Stainless steel and cast iron can achieve an almost equal non-stick effect, and handle much higher temperatures without toxic offgassing or stuff chipping off and ending up in the food.

Leaden flatware works too, but why use it when we have ceramic?

Teflon isn't necessarily even easier to use than cast iron or stainless steel, I think the main issue there is that the education around how to use cookwear is very poor. It's not just pop on the stove and go.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Carbon steel can, too. Plenty of non-nonstick options. And, amusingly enough, many of the highest quality of these items are produced in France.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

I'd completely forgotten about carbon steel, but you're right!

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I've never liked teflon either. The coating always seems to get scratched up no matter how careful you are with it (and some of those flakes end up in your food). But some people swear by it, so I could see them getting angry about a ban.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I've been auper happy with my ceramic pans the past couple years. Seems like nothing stocks to those bad boys

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

A dear friend of mine keeps birds, and she exclusively uses ceramic cookware. She swears by it, and honestly I get it.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Exactly, this’ll limit the exposure to them in things you wouldn’t expect them to be on/in. You can avoid Teflon pans and go iron or steel but the amount of stuff coated in PFAS is ridiculous. Hell, even sofas, rugs, blinds, etc all sorts of stuff. And before anyone says “you don’t eat that stuff”, try telling my toddlers that! I bought a black milk frothing jug for my espresso machine. The black coating? Teflon. Not mentioned anywhere, not even marketed as non-stick.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 7 months ago (18 children)

Stainless steel cookware is cheap, easy to clean, and extremely durable. Nonstick pans are for people who don't know shit.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (18 children)

Stainless + cast iron is all you need.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

It's not planned obsolescence but something remarkably similar. They can be made for cheaper, go to shit eventually, then they wind up in a landfill while the consumer buys yet another. All wrapped up in slick marketing.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

A proper stainless steel frying pan here costs about 100€+, more than a similar sized carbon steel or cast iron would cost

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

They're not really easy to clean, but I'm sure I'm also "cooking wrong". With that said I only ever use cast iron so I don't really care

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Love being able to use steel wool on my wok without worry

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago

I actually googled Tefal after reading just the title to check if they arena French company... God i hate lobying

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This seems pretty stupid, just use carbon steel or cast iron: They both work great and don't poison everyone!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Both of these do require more maintenance and patience than nonstick, which will inevitably make some people upset

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If I was French I'd probably demonstrate against the lobby groups and the government decision right now.

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