politics

hideshow 4 child comments

parent

[–] Atyno@dmv.social 1 point 2 years ago

I'm not sure those numbers are as rosy for your argument as you'd think. You're not considering the possibility of someone that does think it's genocide and wholy approves of it. Which does exist, the "glass em all" types like my father.

I'm pretty sure it all balances out, because other polls are showing it's still Israel with the popularity advantage even with the downturn.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx

It's especially telling that desire to pressure the Palestinians to compromise is dropping faster than the increase to pressure Israel: it's either people just becoming wishy washy or intentionally wanting the conflict to continue until Israel wipes them out. (Kinda wish Gallup didn't nix the differentiation between those options tbh).

parent

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

How is it not 2 sides of the same coin:

2/3rds of people in the US think Israel is either NOT committing genocide or they are unwilling to say Israel definitely IS committing genocide (which, if you didn't care or thought what they were doing wasn't fine you wouldn't say you were undecided on whether Israel isn't committing genocide, people don't just throw that word around lightly).

For instance, perhaps there are those waiting for the ICC's verdict.

The only thing that really matters —for aforementioned unaddressed reasons pertaining to the predominantly Democratic voters believing it is genocide — is what swing-voters believe; and if they are undecided or believe Israel is not committing genocide, then they will be the most susceptible to the right-wing propaganda machine that is going to ramp up in the coming months. Biden advisors will clearly wait to see where they fall before fully committing to either side.

And ultimately: Does anyone here actually believe Biden wants to be associated with Genocide? Is he a homicidal maniac happy to see Palestinians suffer? I don't get that impression.

And If it were that cut-and-dry, why wouldn't he just abandon Netanyahu entirely?

So it begs the question: what do we as armchair lemmy geniuses believe we know better than the consensus of his advisors and strategists with far more experience and precision survey data than we have?

hideshow 6 child comments

parent

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

For instance, perhaps there are those waiting for the ICC’s verdict.

News flash, we won’t here that verdict until way wayyyyy wayyyyyyyyy after the genocide has already happened and the ruling is simply a matter of getting the history of mass murder right, not a matter of stopping mass murder.

parent

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

I mean I'm not those people but it doesn't change my point.

parent

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

And ultimately: Does anyone here actually believe Biden wants to be associated with Genocide? Is he a homicidal maniac happy to see Palestinians suffer? I don’t get that impression.

Actually there is a lot of indicators that a lot of Biden’s cabinet vehemently disagree with Biden’s policy on the Palestinian genocide, Biden doesn’t want to be associated with genocide but at this point the only reasonable conclusion is that Biden is ideologically committed to Israel in a way that blinds him to empathizing with the Palestinian genocide.

This might be one of Biden’s few ideological positions (as opposed to just calculating the middle and taking that position which a politician like him normally does).

parent

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

but at this point the only reasonable conclusion is that Biden is ideologically committed to Israel in a way that blinds him to empathizing with the Palestinian genocide.

I think I gave another very reasonable logical conclusion that went completely unaddressed, did I not?

I mean, easily 4/5 of my comment went just completely ignored.

parent

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

What this part?

The only thing that really matters —for aforementioned unaddressed reasons pertaining to the predominantly Democratic voters believing it is genocide — is what swing-voters believe; and if they are undecided or believe Israel is not committing genocide, then they will be the most susceptible to the right-wing propaganda machine that is going to ramp up in the coming months.

Again this is just accepting the rightwing framing that Biden has to tack right to be popular and it is a notion that isn’t supported by evidence in many cases even though it is the prevailing wisdom.

Republicans are going to think Biden is doing a shit job no matter what he does. It’s like trying to make friends with Mitch McConnell and expecting to be able to mediate his positions by appealing to a desire for compromise. It doesn’t work, it just cedes the entire rhetorical conversation to conservatives while trying to appeal to a subset of people who are least likely to be meaningfully swayed.

For the rest of us, we want the genocide to stop now not for Biden to write Netanyahu a strongly worded letter.

parent

[–] Nudding@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Well, judging by the fact that Biden was paid over 5 million dollars by the pro Israel lobby since 1990, and the fact that he's bending over backwards to facilitate a genocide as we speak, I'd say he's more than happy to watch the poors get mutilated by an American colony.

parent

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

^ For bystanders reading: Nudding in another thread somehow managed to blame Biden for the reversal of Roe and that he should magically snap his fingers and override the Supreme Court of the United states... Or something. Anyway, Republicans thank them for their service. Surely Trump will do better, amirite?

Beware of people like this; for nuance isn't their forte.

parent