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Could we please refrain from doing exactly what nearly got programming.dev defederated? (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by to c/main@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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People don't stop being trans because you disagree with them politically. I despise Jenner and other high profile trans grifters but I'm not shitty enough to deny their identities.

Do better. As a user of both sites this shit is genuinely upsetting. Despite how you may feel about hexbear, how can you claim that they bait people into revealing their internalized transphobia and then turn around and make shitty claims like this? I don't give a shit if you call me a tankie or red fash or whatever, but I'm trans whether you like me or not.

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[–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Yea, you've lost me. First, this is beyond the scope of the original convo, so I wouldn't be surprised if these comments got removed for being off-topic. Secondly, you're just wrong on many of these subjects.

"Reverse-racism" does not exist, same with extreme-left misandry, at least to the degree that it is even in the same realm as far-right racism and misogyny. Leftism is founded on ideas such as rejecting racism and misogyny, and you're implying this is taken too far in the opposite direction that it is somehow equivalent to actual ideologies built on racism and misogyny as core values. That's like saying that trans people take their trans liberation too far and are violently anti-cis, that's a made-up problem and trivializes the very real and active threat that transphobes pose on trans individuals in the real world.

Again: you're implying that taking the stance of "racism and misogyny are bad" to the extreme is comparable to "racism and misogyny are good and natural" to the extreme, it's utterly ridiculous and dismissive towards women and people of color who are genuinely struggling against patriarchy and systemic racism.

For the latter paragraphs, I'm not sure we disagree at all. There certainly could be false-trans individuals on hexbear, my point however is that it is nobody's job to judge or investigate this as it creates an atmosphere of transvestigation and "trans purity" testing that is ultimately transphobic.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Secondly, you’re just wrong on many of these subjects.

    You did not read what I wrote

    “Reverse-racism” does not exist, same with extreme-left misandry, at least to the degree that it is even in the same realm as far-right racism and misogyny.

    I literally said this. To quote myself:

    Remember we're talking about extremist circles here. Obviously in wider society, one side of the whole discrimination issue is a much bigger problem than the other to the point where it's practically disingenuous to compare the two.

    Leftism is founded on ideas such as rejecting racism and misogyny...

    And Islam is founded on ideas of peace. Christianity is founded on ideas of being virtuous and kind to your neighbours, even if you have differences. Feminism is founded on the core concept of equal rights.

    Didn't stop people finding ways to bastardise them, often to the point of going completely against the original messages. Jihadists, WBC and TERFs are all things, after all.

    ...and you’re implying this is taken too far in the opposite direction that it is somehow equivalent to actual ideologies built on racism and misogyny as core values.

    I'm not arguing leftism as a whole is taken too far. I'm arguing that there are contingents in every group who take things too far.

    Again: you’re implying that taking the stance of “racism and misogyny are bad” to the extreme is comparable to “racism and misogyny are good and natural” to the extreme, it’s utterly ridiculous and dismissive towards women and people of color who are genuinely struggling against patriarchy and systemic racism.

    Except I have done nothing of the sort. You're taking a wildly different message away from what I wrote. So I'll try to explain again.

    Every group, no matter how originally well meaning, eventually has an offshoot that bastardises the original message into an excuse for hatred.

    Sometimes they stay a small group of salty little bastards. And sometimes they get big, sometimes big enough to hijack the whole thing. I would argue this happened several times over the centuries with conservatism, when hatred and subjugation became part of the 'traditional values'

    For the latter paragraphs, I’m not sure we disagree at all. There certainly could be false-trans individuals on hexbear, my point however is that it is nobody’s job to judge or investigate this as it creates an atmosphere of transvestigation and “trans purity” testing that is ultimately transphobic.

    I would agree, it is not our job to try and judge who is who.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I did read what you wrote. You painted the far left and the far right as strikingly similar in terms of dogmatism and action, as though antiracist action is just as bad as racist action. That was your entire "reverse-racism" point, that radicals must be evil if they are radical, which is false. Being radically against transphobia is far better than being radically transphobic.

    You can claim you weren't trying to claim they are as bad, but you certainly seemed to be painting a picture that radical leftists are just as bad as radical rightists, because radicalism itself is bad in your eyes.

    I'll give you an example: if the two stances are "racism bad" and "racism good," being radically in the "racism bad" camp is a good thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    If that's your takeaway, then you have zero clue what radicalisation looks like. The radical left isn't 'radically against' transphobia, etc. It is just a different kind of hatred. See FDS for an example.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Nah, the radical left is definitely radically against transphobia. The "both sides" narrative is just dismissal of left wing values, generally.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    The “both sides” narrative is just dismissal of left wing values, generally.

    Stop moving the goalposts. The conversation topic is about the extreme ends, I haven't said shit about the general left.

    Actually it's pretty clear you aren't arguing in good faith so I'm just gonna stop here.

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