this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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https://raddle.me/wiki/leftunity

Some choice quotes straight from the US state department

The USSR alone was responsible for the de-Tatarization of Crimea, the genocide of the Ingrian Finns, the ethnic cleansing of Poles, the mass gulaging and pogroms of Greeks, the deportation of the Karachays, the deportation of the Kalmyks, the deportation of the Chechens and Ingush (Aardakh), the deportation of the Balkars, the deportation of Azerbaijanis from Armenia, the deportation of the Meskhetian Turks, the deportations of the Chinese and Koreans, the execution and deportation of Latvians, the expulsion of Germans from Eastern Europe and the Holodomor famine that largely happened due to the USSR's confiscation and export of all the grain stores in central and eastern Ukraine, and preventing people from acquiring more food by banning free movement. Then there's communist Czechoslovakia's Romani sterilizations, the Cambodian genocide, Bulgaria's "revival process", Vietnam's Montagnard persecution, the Isaaq genocide in Somalia, the Hmong genocide in Laos, the Gukurahundi massacres in Zimbabwe and the mass starvation of anywhere between 15 and 55 million people that happened in China during Mao's "Great Leap Forward".

LMAO

Marx really made his career shamelessly ripping off Proudhon's earlier work point by point, but piling on a thick authority sludge before serving it up to the world as if he were presenting something new and not just an authoritarian perversion of Proudhon's ideas. Once Marx found fame with his plagiarism, he then decried Proudhon as being detestable; a bad economist, a bad philosopher, whose critiques were worthless and unevolved.

MARX STOLE COMMUNISM FROM ANARCHISTS!!! LOL

identifying as a leftist is a statement to the world that you support nationalism, states, borders, a monopoly on violence, being ruled by kings or presidents or central committees. Anarchists aren't left or right wing, we're anarchists. We reject the power machinations of both wings of government. We reject all authority.

LITERALLY A LIBERTARIAN

If the concept of community is authority-based e.g. steeped in majoritarianism, then what good is it to anarchists? Since at least 99.9% of all existing self-identifying communities and even theoretical proposals for communities are beholden to states, councils, committees, voter bodies and other forms of rulership, it's safe to say the community ideal in itself is just another vessel of authority. If all organized communities on the planet can be clearly demonstrated to be authority-based, then it's a safe bet that the entire concept of community is authority-forming... By simply looking at every example in the world today, you can bet with absolute certainty that any forced grouping of people around the community ideal is going to lead everyone involved through another abusive and torturous adventure in archy.

Anti...COMMUNITY??? Can't make this shit up omg.

The few remaining free people in the world e.g. the Hadza in east Africa ("Tanzania") don't live in anything resembling what we know as a community. They're nomadic, have no leaders, no gods, no rules, no crops, no property, no marriage, no parents (Hadza children have full autonomy and essentially raise themselves), don't extract anything from the land other than foraged food and are quick to remove themselves from the presence of anyone who tries to rule them.

PLEASE LET ME GO MONKE, I HATE HUMANS SO MUCH

The original National Bolsheviks in both Russia and Germany had the same idea, believing socialism needed more blatant nationalism and racism than it already had under Lenin and Stalin. In the 1980s, the concept of third positionism was taken up by the far-right, fascist political party National Front in the United Kingdom. Today there has been a resurgence in third positionist fascism under various labels, from modern nazbols to "national anarchism" to neo-Eurasianism to (I argue) Dengism. It's completely unsurprising that an ideology founded by virulent racist and colonialist paternalists like Marx and Engels would find support with so many racist nationalists.

Fucker is trying to cancel Marx using literal nazi propaganda ROFL

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Don't the Hazda people that still live exclusively through foraging and hunting have a life expectancy in the mid 30s, and an infant mortality rate above 20 percent? And don't the majority of Hazda people live with some forms of modern lifestyle? Last I read, of the 1300 Hazda people in Tanzania, only 300-400 are exclusively hunter gatherers.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

Of course, ecofascists want everyone to die in their 30s. They literally write fanfic where 99% of humanity dies and the survivors live in caves lol.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

I don't know, but mortality rates are tricky at the best of times. High infant mortality is a given without modern vaccinations and medicines, but depending on how you count mortality then those infant deaths might be draggin the life expectancy of the overall population way down. This is what's usually going on when Medieval Europe is said to have a life expectancy of 30 years. Folks routinely lived in to their 40s, 50s, or even 70s, but the huge rate of mortality in infancy and childhood brought the overall life expectancy way down.

The other thing is; There aren't very many Hadza people, and iirc they're surrounded on all sides by agriculturalists and have been subject to violence from both expanding agriculturists and pastoralists seeking new land for crops and livestock, and from European colonialists, for as long as anyone right now can remember. The 19th and early 20th century notion that folks like the Hadza and the San are ancestral primitive cave people living the same way people did a million years ago is basically just racist claptrap at this point. All these small hunting and gathering groups have been in contact with their neighbors the whole time. Like, for all of human history. Their cultures aren't "primitive" or "ancient", these people are adapting to changing and modern circumstances just like everyone else. If they're still building tools and housing the same way people in the region were a thousand years ago that's because people think those techniques are good and are well suited to the environment and the resources and tools that are available in the region.

But they're also in contact with other people. Like Hadza people have been dealing with Bantu speaking people for a long, long time. So Hadza culture doesn't just exist in this mystical ancient vacuum, it also exists in relation to and in response to Bantu culture. There's some thought that some current hunting and gathering cultures might have been pastoralist (herders) or even agricultural cultures many centuries ago but adopted hunting and gathering as they were forced in to more and more marginal lands by the expansion of other peoples. You can kind of see this on the periphery of the expansion of empires all over the place - Eventually you hit a point where you can't grow wheat or corn, and you can't ranch goats or cattle, and much of the time the agriculturalists and pastoralists stop and given up because they cannot practice their economy further out in to the bush or the desert or whatever. But the indigenous people of the region, usually greatly reduced in numbers by violence, do often know how to live in those conditions and continue to do so. They often become mysticized and quasi-legendary to the settlers when mostly they just know where to find water and good things to eat, and how to avoid the really dangerous snakes.

The idea that if Ziq could just kill enough people then everyone would live like Hadza people is very silly. Folks adapt to their environments and the resources available to them. Hadza people live in small mobile groups, at least in part, because that structural organization is very suitable to the world they live in. Without herds and crops they don't have much need for complex government or military structures. Without any fixed resources to defend they can use what is probably the most efficient military strategy in terms of conserving resources and lives; If someone is bothering you, leave.

If the population was very suddenly reduced to 20 million we wouldn't get some utopian hunting and gathering an-prim paradise. people would set right about to re-inventing herding and agriculture and water mills and all the rest of it. It might take another 400,000 years (though even if all the institutional knowledge was lost we'd still have domesticated animals and crops and people would figure out that cultivating those is useful in, I figure, about 20 years tops) but we'd get back to building cities and shit. It's what we do. If all the people around the Hadza up and decided to move to Missouri one day the Hadza would probably expand in to the land they left behind and their economy and culture would begin adapting to the new situation, too.