▲ 603 ▼ Scrollbars are becoming a problem (artemis.sh) submitted 2 years ago by KelsonV@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 162 comments fedilink hide all child comments Too narrow, hidden, minimal feedback...
[–] deleted@lemmy.world 46 points 2 years ago (18 children) I am sick of modern minimalist UI where functionality is not a priority. I always prefer win32 applications for this reason. permalink fedilink source hideshow 18 child comments replies: [–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 26 points 2 years ago (5 children) Heck, I even prefer the ultra-skeuomorphic textured-everything approach of Mountain Lion-era OS X over the current ultra-minimalist approach where everything is either a hairline or a big flat monocolored shape. It actually makes it harder to parse the UI when a button, a text field, a label, and a random part of the window can look exactly the same. I'd rather take a file manager that tries to look like a 1980s hifi stereo. Or you know, a reasonable middle ground. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) In the early '90s Alan Cooper wrote a book called About Face which unfortunately has dropped off the face of the earth as far as its influence on UI design is concerned. One of its many sensible proscriptions was that UI elements that can be interacted with should be visibly distinct from elements that are just there to display information. As a programmer, it drives me insane to have to use any of the modern apps that have completely abandoned this principle - or to have to deal with designers who have literally mocked me for thinking this is important. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago Yes, that is the worst aspect of modern UI design. Interactable elements that are distinguished from labels solely by color because accessibility is so 2010. Labels that have that same color for emphasis. Flat black windows with black borders in front of other flat black windows that will get focus if you accidentally click them. Or what the article is about: Tiny, hidden scroll bars because Fitts's law means nothing and every user has a touchscreen and 20/20 vision. permalink fedilink source parent [+] bob_wiley@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] aksdb@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago That shit started with win2k/winme already. That's when the borders of controls were made thinner, icons were made with less contrast and the first flat buttons that only show their border on hover were being used. So it's quite some time already that this is going downhill. (tbf, I think the flat buttons were mostly intended for toolbars, but still, style won over function) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago But but.. but… Apple bad! permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (8 children) You can hide ribbon menu afaik by double clicking on any tap. I’m sure least MS Office support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children) I see. So, is there a better alternative to ribbons? I am a developer and I am genuinely interested to know if there’s a better way to make frequently used buttons accessible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] valen@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Control key shortcuts. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Iamdanno@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Form follows function! Not the other way around! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago You’re correct. However, in our capitalist world, form follows profit.  permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 26 points 2 years ago (5 children) Heck, I even prefer the ultra-skeuomorphic textured-everything approach of Mountain Lion-era OS X over the current ultra-minimalist approach where everything is either a hairline or a big flat monocolored shape. It actually makes it harder to parse the UI when a button, a text field, a label, and a random part of the window can look exactly the same. I'd rather take a file manager that tries to look like a 1980s hifi stereo. Or you know, a reasonable middle ground. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) In the early '90s Alan Cooper wrote a book called About Face which unfortunately has dropped off the face of the earth as far as its influence on UI design is concerned. One of its many sensible proscriptions was that UI elements that can be interacted with should be visibly distinct from elements that are just there to display information. As a programmer, it drives me insane to have to use any of the modern apps that have completely abandoned this principle - or to have to deal with designers who have literally mocked me for thinking this is important. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago Yes, that is the worst aspect of modern UI design. Interactable elements that are distinguished from labels solely by color because accessibility is so 2010. Labels that have that same color for emphasis. Flat black windows with black borders in front of other flat black windows that will get focus if you accidentally click them. Or what the article is about: Tiny, hidden scroll bars because Fitts's law means nothing and every user has a touchscreen and 20/20 vision. permalink fedilink source parent [+] bob_wiley@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] aksdb@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago That shit started with win2k/winme already. That's when the borders of controls were made thinner, icons were made with less contrast and the first flat buttons that only show their border on hover were being used. So it's quite some time already that this is going downhill. (tbf, I think the flat buttons were mostly intended for toolbars, but still, style won over function) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago But but.. but… Apple bad! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) In the early '90s Alan Cooper wrote a book called About Face which unfortunately has dropped off the face of the earth as far as its influence on UI design is concerned. One of its many sensible proscriptions was that UI elements that can be interacted with should be visibly distinct from elements that are just there to display information. As a programmer, it drives me insane to have to use any of the modern apps that have completely abandoned this principle - or to have to deal with designers who have literally mocked me for thinking this is important. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago Yes, that is the worst aspect of modern UI design. Interactable elements that are distinguished from labels solely by color because accessibility is so 2010. Labels that have that same color for emphasis. Flat black windows with black borders in front of other flat black windows that will get focus if you accidentally click them. Or what the article is about: Tiny, hidden scroll bars because Fitts's law means nothing and every user has a touchscreen and 20/20 vision. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Jesus_666@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago Yes, that is the worst aspect of modern UI design. Interactable elements that are distinguished from labels solely by color because accessibility is so 2010. Labels that have that same color for emphasis. Flat black windows with black borders in front of other flat black windows that will get focus if you accidentally click them. Or what the article is about: Tiny, hidden scroll bars because Fitts's law means nothing and every user has a touchscreen and 20/20 vision. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] bob_wiley@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aksdb@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago That shit started with win2k/winme already. That's when the borders of controls were made thinner, icons were made with less contrast and the first flat buttons that only show their border on hover were being used. So it's quite some time already that this is going downhill. (tbf, I think the flat buttons were mostly intended for toolbars, but still, style won over function) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago But but.. but… Apple bad! permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (8 children) You can hide ribbon menu afaik by double clicking on any tap. I’m sure least MS Office support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children) I see. So, is there a better alternative to ribbons? I am a developer and I am genuinely interested to know if there’s a better way to make frequently used buttons accessible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] valen@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Control key shortcuts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] deleted@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (8 children) You can hide ribbon menu afaik by double clicking on any tap. I’m sure least MS Office support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children) I see. So, is there a better alternative to ribbons? I am a developer and I am genuinely interested to know if there’s a better way to make frequently used buttons accessible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] valen@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Control key shortcuts. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children) I see. So, is there a better alternative to ribbons? I am a developer and I am genuinely interested to know if there’s a better way to make frequently used buttons accessible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] valen@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Control key shortcuts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (6 children) I see. So, is there a better alternative to ribbons? I am a developer and I am genuinely interested to know if there’s a better way to make frequently used buttons accessible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] valen@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Control key shortcuts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) deleted by creator permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago Menus are a simple, elegant and time effective way of organizing a complex GUI I think what killed menus are all the people who can't fucking read. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm 100% with you on all of this! Just give me a classic windows menu at the top. I don't want any ribbons, side bars, hovering bullshit that covers what I'm working on.. Everything should have a keyboard shortcut. Everything should have visibility options. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Iamdanno@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Form follows function! Not the other way around! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago You’re correct. However, in our capitalist world, form follows profit.  permalink fedilink source parent
[–] deleted@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago You’re correct. However, in our capitalist world, form follows profit.  permalink fedilink source parent