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[–] 59 points 1 day ago (12 children)

Wow looking at objective data makes one reach similar conclusions to dialectical materialism? What a surprise

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  • [–] 45 points 1 day ago (11 children)

    Concerning. We need some "economist" to make up a bullshit measurement or theory on why this is good actually.

    cap-think

    And to sell this bullshit and pretend it's a real science, we give them a prestigious prize... a "nobel" prize if you will.

    porky-happy

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  • [–] 30 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Concerning. We need some "economist" to make up a bullshit measurement

    They already dropped food and energy from inflation and are starting on housing. What more could you possibly want?!

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  • [–] 29 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    Economics is a real science, it's just that the field has been mostly coopted by neoliberals (which themselves are anti-scientific by their own admission) because it was the only way to get rid of the inevitable and inconvenient truth of the Labour Theory of Value.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    Economics is a real science

    Economics is a social science (which whatever), the reason I point it out is you have all these people talking about "supply and demand" like this is a natural and inviolable law like conservation of energy or something.

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  • [–] 9 points 22 hours ago* (3 children)

    Labour theory of Value is kinda as inviolable as general relativity. There are many principles of economics that are as true as statistical physics, you could have a look at Classical Econophysics by Paul Cockshott, a Marxist computer scientist and economist. Supply and demand is BS made up by neolibs, economists as far in the past as David Ricardo (>200 years ago) were aware of labour theory of value, at least rudimentarily.

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  • [–] 13 points 21 hours ago

    The first labor theory of value quite literally comes from Adam Smith. It is integral to his ideas around the idea of the "Wealth of Nations".

    To give quick and dirty summary that doesn't really get into the exact language he uses, but still gets the gist of the thing, basically, the economy of a state is fundamentally made up of two intertwining things. The wealth of individuals and the wealth of nations. The wealth of individuals can appear massive and sometimes appear to be the wealth of the state, with states with more rich people in them appearing to hold more power. However, these things are fundementally based on the wealth of nations. The wealth of nations refers to the actual capacity for economic and manufacturing improvement of a country. It's ability to use labor to make things and create meaningful capital improvements (or as Marx would later define, create labor value).

    I will provide an easy example, the landlord. The landlord has the wealth of the individual and is incentivized to increase the wealth of his individual person. However, this incentive towards individual wealth does not mean that he is inherently incentivized to make meaningful capital improvements. He can increase his individual wealth by raising rent and never doing maintenance or improvements on the land. The wealth of nations is not built on this, but instead on creating capital improvements on the land, so it goes from a farm to a factory. That hands that were chopping wood instead dig coal, etc. That labor value increases.

    Adam Smith basically says that the job of a state is to create the appropriate incentives to incentivize the creation of the wealth of the nation, not the creation of the wealth of the individual. Which people would know if they ever actually read Adam Smith and didn't just pretend to read him.

    Ricardo and Marx take it a couple of steps further, with Ricardo explicitly defining that the wealth comes from the ability to marshall the labor, not actually from the capital improvement, and Marx redefining it as 'socially necessary labor' and investigating why such capital developments are piece-meal (the tendency of the rate of profit to fall which disincentives individuals and nations from pursuing capital improvements).

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  • [–] 3 points 21 hours ago (1 child)

    Thanks for the detailed explanation! I've never read Smith, never knew that the term "wealth of nations" was so... progressive and materialist?

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  • [–] 2 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

    Adam Smith was actually a pretty progressive guy, if a liberal. It is easy to see why people like him so much, as he fundementally believed that human empathy should be at the root of all economic transactions, and that if we operated so, the economy would naturally flourish. It is why so many libertarians hold him up as their banner, as he presents a vision of economic prosperity through freedom and fraternity. However, he also didn't ever actually visit the factories or actually talk to the workers and capitalists that he was discussing. He was a philosopher interpreting the world.

    However, notice how this is quite literally the exact opposite of how Ayn Rand thinks, despite Rationalists claiming to be Adam Smith disciples.

    Marx, on the other hand, has actually read Adam Smith and largely agrees with him. The question for Marx is more about why this hasn't actually happened, and what is probably nessecary to bring about a social change to make that happen. Basically, the capitalists have clearly been given an economic formula that works, why have they not actually used it as proscribed?

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