I’m reading through The Curriculum of Basic Principles of Marxism-Leninism at the moment so I’ve been trying to get my head around this lately. It would be super helpful if someone could, say, talk about some historical political development or some contemporary issue and tell me examples of what an idealist, nondialectical materialist, and dialectical materialist analysis of that issue might look like? Thank you 🙏

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[–] 22 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

I've always just treated is as thinking about everything as the output of a system. Idealist think that the end result happens due to some morality, materialists think only in terms of immediate causes, and dialectical materialists see the system as it exists due to historical conditions, present conditions, and uses that knowledge to see the deeper systemic forces that cause the conditions that create the effect.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    You are separating dialectical and materialism as if they are separate methods, and while there is a difference between what each word means, they are not mutually exclusive the way you seem to be describing them, and it is simply an incorrect view of what "materialist" means. Remember, Marxist philosophy is Dialectical Materialism. Dialectical thinking is almost entirely about recognizing the contradictions within a thing that drive its change. Materialism on the other hand, is not "thinking only in terms of immediate causes." Materialism is merely analyzing any thing or issue or system by putting material reality forward as the primary causal force rather than driven by human ideas or by spirits or by some magical secondary universe (like in Cartesian Dualism). Where you said "see a system as it exists due to historical conditions and present conditions" - that is materialism, while the dialectical part is again, identifying the contradictions within a thing as what is driving that thing towards change.

    To more directly answer the OP question, an easy way to approach a dialectical kind of thinking is to consider the old school platonic meaning of "a dialectic," where, when trying to understand an issue, you approach it with a given perspective but then consider what someone with an opposing perspective would say as an argument against your initial perspective. That is a very simplified way of beginning the process of thinking dialectically.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I was only framing it that way because OP did. Materialism as an actual idea is pretty closely related to dialectic thinking. There is a modern version of it that is bastardized though. Liberal "I fucking love science" types, and PMCs that think reading stock tickers is being materialist.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I didn’t mean to imply they’re mutually exclusive things, but can’t people put forward a material analysis of something without thinking in terms of dialectics? Isn’t that what people mean when they say vulgar materialism?

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago*

    A stupid analogy that explains my interpretation would be a car accident.

    An idealist would lay the blame on the moral failing of the drivers involved, a "vulgar" materialist would bring up the road signaling or mechanical issues with the vehicles, and a dialectical materialist would see the situation as a symptom of overdevelopment of vehicular infrastructure.

    Now just replace a car crash with a market crash or a crisis of overproduction.

    All 3 of them can be correct about something, but one one of those actually does anything to prevent the situation entirely instead of just reacting to it as it happens.

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