memes

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[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago (12 children)

You're bringing up fucking Kipling of all people, the one poet everyone knows for being mega into colonialism. That's like me pointing at the Grateful Dead while saying Americans need to lay off the acid.

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[–] 011011@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (9 children)

One of England's favorite poets unti public displays of explicit racism were no longer de rigueur.

He's a perfectly valid example of the feelings of the nation at that time.

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[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

One of the favourite English poets amongst a certain grouping of people

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[–] 011011@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Amongst the people with influence who set the curriculum in England for a very long time. He wasn't some fringe artist with unusual views.

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[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (6 children)

It's a cherry-picked example if I ever saw one, I could just as well go and point at Wilberforce to underline early 19th century attitudes to slavery and I'd be making the same error as this.

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[–] 011011@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

You cannot use the term "cherry-picked" to refer to a man who is such a prominent cultural icon. His art captured the essence of an era.

It's even more valid when taken in light of more recent wars of colonial aggression involving the UK in which the terminology and lies used mirror the justifications of the 19th century. The behavior and attitude of the UK government towards former colonies when it comes to the topic of reparations and the belated return of stolen artifacts is no different now as it was when the enslaved peoples of the West Indies were granted their "freedom"

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[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

Kipling has been subject of debate since the height of his career. it would be inaccurate to claim he represented unchallenged universal attitudes.

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[–] 011011@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Who said anything about "universal"?

The views of the Anglican church have been debated for centuries that doesn't negate their power and influence. Theirs was very much the voice of the establishment, ala Kipling.

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[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

Nor can you select the worst examples of someone else's country to defend America's conduct on patriotic grounds which is blatantly what's happening here.

There's a massive Americentrism problem in the wider West that both the US left and right wingers absolutely hate being challenged, they are exactly alike on this issue as far as I am concerned.

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[–] 011011@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

Who here is defending America?

Reminding the world that Britain has done a lot of evil and exposing how contemporary Brits justify said evil acts does not equate to defending America.

Some of us can walk and chew gum simultaneously. Cute deflection though.

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[–] mobyduck648@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago*

Come on, this whole thread is basically Americans shitting on Britons because Britons don't generally put American PoV goggles on when discussing racism.