▲ 58 ▼ French far-left presidential candidate Melenchon blames Ukraine's deep strikes for war escalation (kyivindependent.com) submitted 5 days ago by Sunshine@piefed.ca to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz 56 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 15 points 5 days ago (7 children) They support authoritarianism. That's not leftist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] tal@lemmy.today 3 points 5 days ago (6 children) I mean, you can be auth-left. Reasonable to plot things in multiple dimensions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum Several political scientists have noted that a single left–right axis is too simplistic and insufficient for describing the existing variation in political beliefs and include other axes to compensate for this problem.[1][9] Although the descriptive words at polar opposites may vary, the axes of popular biaxial spectra are usually split between economic issues (on a left–right dimension) and socio-cultural issues (on an authority–liberty dimension).[1][10] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago (5 children) How would that even work in the real world though? There cannot be even a hint at equality under authoritarianism. Someone is always at the top, and maintaining that kind of power is going to require restrictions and oppression. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tolc@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago who told you leftism = no hierarchy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 4 days ago (3 children) Yet the USSR existed for a long time and PRC still does. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago* (2 children) Which part of those countries is leftist? Calling each citizen a tovarish does not mean there was social equality or progressivism, depending on which definition of leftism you'd use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tal@lemmy.today 3 points 5 days ago (6 children) I mean, you can be auth-left. Reasonable to plot things in multiple dimensions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum Several political scientists have noted that a single left–right axis is too simplistic and insufficient for describing the existing variation in political beliefs and include other axes to compensate for this problem.[1][9] Although the descriptive words at polar opposites may vary, the axes of popular biaxial spectra are usually split between economic issues (on a left–right dimension) and socio-cultural issues (on an authority–liberty dimension).[1][10] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago (5 children) How would that even work in the real world though? There cannot be even a hint at equality under authoritarianism. Someone is always at the top, and maintaining that kind of power is going to require restrictions and oppression. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tolc@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago who told you leftism = no hierarchy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 4 days ago (3 children) Yet the USSR existed for a long time and PRC still does. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago* (2 children) Which part of those countries is leftist? Calling each citizen a tovarish does not mean there was social equality or progressivism, depending on which definition of leftism you'd use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago (5 children) How would that even work in the real world though? There cannot be even a hint at equality under authoritarianism. Someone is always at the top, and maintaining that kind of power is going to require restrictions and oppression. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Tolc@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago who told you leftism = no hierarchy? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 4 days ago (3 children) Yet the USSR existed for a long time and PRC still does. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago* (2 children) Which part of those countries is leftist? Calling each citizen a tovarish does not mean there was social equality or progressivism, depending on which definition of leftism you'd use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tolc@lemmy.world 1 point 1 day ago who told you leftism = no hierarchy? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Womble@piefed.world 3 points 4 days ago (3 children) Yet the USSR existed for a long time and PRC still does. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago* (2 children) Which part of those countries is leftist? Calling each citizen a tovarish does not mean there was social equality or progressivism, depending on which definition of leftism you'd use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 1 point 4 days ago* (2 children) Which part of those countries is leftist? Calling each citizen a tovarish does not mean there was social equality or progressivism, depending on which definition of leftism you'd use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Womble@piefed.world 1 point 4 days ago (1 child) If you want to claim no left wing states exist or have ever existed then fair enough, but generally things are compared to others. The USSR (especially the early years) was more egalitarian than the USA and so was more left wing, despite being authoritarian. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rose@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 days ago That's a very strange way of looking at it. If there's a far-right person and someone is comparably moderate, that doesn't mean they're "more left wing". That could easily mean they're just right-wing. If someone is not stealing from their own country at the rate of Putin for example, that says little to nothing about the politics, human rights and equality in that country. The richest or specifically the ruling class in an African country may be worse off than those in the US or Russia, but that does not speak to the nature of either regime or make either more left-wing. permalink fedilink source parent