General_Effort comments on GrapheneOS defends use of AI for coding

GrapheneOS defends use of AI for coding (grapheneos.social)

submitted 1 day ago by General_Effort@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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GrapheneOS is currently defending its use of AI coding tools on Mastodon against complaints by various accounts claiming to be users.

We do not understand where you're coming from or why you're so incredibly angry with us. It's not justified and does not make sense.

[+] General_Effort@lemmy.world [S] -7 points 1 day ago (23 children)

I guess many people don't know how much programming has changed over the last year. GrapheneOS is doing a good job telling it like it is.

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 49 points 1 day ago (19 children)

Your take here is so dumb. Many on Lemmy are software engineers (myself included).

We know exactly how "AI" companies have tried to change programming and know how dumb and misguided it is because we understand quality code.

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[+] General_Effort@lemmy.world [S] -16 points 1 day ago (18 children)

Sure bro. All dumb takes by GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and even Linux.

You understand quality code, unlike Linus Torvalds.

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 25 points 1 day ago (15 children)

GrapheneOS and Linus have always had a god complex and took the stance their way is the only way. I have never respected them as the arbiters of the correct path others have. (I know LineageOS exists but not much else so can't speak to them).

I respect them putting in the effort. I respect them trying. I've contributed where I can because the overall goal of data privacy and digital freedom is one I agree with. But to hold them on a pedestal as always right is, yes, still a dumb take. I've never seen anything that made them the end all be all people seem to hold them up as. Solid voices who's opinion should hold more than average? Sure. But that's it.

Yes, Linus is smart and has had good takes and can produce code used by most every computer in one way or another. That doesn't make him infallible.

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[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 day ago (11 children)

Its not about putting linus on a pedestal... its about these anti-AI purists declaring everyone who uses AI a nazi and all code is slop. Big tough guys saying they wont use software with even a single line of generated code.

Go ahead, fork the linux kernel then... these people will never be able to follow through with their purism, unless they go full templeOS mode

I dislike AI overall, but what i'm starting to dislike almost as much are these anti-AI purists who are holier than everyone

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 9 points 1 day ago (10 children)

I mean this in the worst way possible. Your attitude mirrors the far right and is just as bad a take. That's their approach to everything.

"Oh, you're fighting against something you see as a danger to literally the entire world? Well if you'd just stop shoving your opinion in our face we'd be happier."

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[–] Zeoic@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

He doesn’t care for misguided opinions not backed with anything but emotion. The people he is talking about don't actually look into the issues and fight those, their mind is set that AI is evil and you are too for any usage of it, without actually understanding anything about the situation.

There are situations where using AI uses less power than traditional methods, there are situations where the power is clean, hell there are even models getting made that don't use stolen data. Some people use it more responsibly (use tiny models where possible) while some toss everything at whatever new Fable or Opus is available.

There are levels of AI usage and their blanket statements with no understanding are annoying because it alienates the people that are responsible with their usage.

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

I am sorry you get tossed out with the bathwater.

It absolutely is something I struggle with. To me, I know LLMs are just called AI but aren't, and machine learning is not LLM. I've actually developed a neural network based program for a previous company before and know it can be useful in certain cases.

But how do I know the person I'm talking to knows that? How do I know the person is one of the minority who is trying to do it ethically and responsibly? How do I express just how truly damaging the current mainstream "AI" methods are succinctly and strongly without getting bogged down in that discussion and sidetracked from the bigger picture (which is exactly what's happening here in this comment for example).

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[–] Zeoic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

AI is Evil -> Irresponsible AI use is Evil AI destroys the environment -> Irresponsible AI use is destroying the environment

All it really takes imo is a small adjustment of words to change your stance from looking like zealotry to actual concern for the issues. I also think these sidetracks are important, to be fair. Otherwise we wouldn't have had this conversation to deepen our understanding of the issues.

I would be more than willing to agree if the message was "Frontier AI labs are causing massive harm to the environment by facilitating irresponsible use of AI" rather than "AI is evil, fuck you for using it" (not saying those are your words, just getting my point across lol)

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 5 points 1 day ago

I have tried that shift from "AI is Evil" -> "Irresponsible AI use is Evil" and what I found is everyone then goes "well I'm one of the responsible ones" and we end up right back where we started with them pumping every thought into a prompt and churning out whatever with no regard. Humans are very skilled at believing they aren't the problem and are the hero of their own story.

If however, the lazy approach is taken of "AI is evil, fuck you for using it" (those are my words but with the asterisk of if you truly are part of the 0.01% using it responsibly then ignore me) then people understand that, yes, I mean you guy running claude code to "write" your next big app.

It's the same problem of why marginalized people get overlooked or alienated in general. They're in the margins because they aren't the norm. Not saying it's good, just this is more of that and I've never seen a good solution.

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[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago* (4 children)

Ok, so i'm far-right (just call me a nazi) because i dont have a 100% blind hatred of AI?

this is exactly what i'm talking about... this kind of holier than thou attitude makes enemies out of potential allies

I'm sure if we had a reasonable discussion about AI we'd find 90% of our opinions align... i'm generally very against AI as it is now...

But instead you've already labelled me as just another pro-AI nazi because i dont pass your purity test

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I explicitly did not call you a Nazi or far right. I do see how what I wrote could be interpreted that way and isn't my intent so my bad on that one.

I said that that's a far right attitude to take. Shutting out the opinion of people against it because you view them as obnoxious. Nothing good will happen if we all did that in my opinion.

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[–] Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 6 hours ago

Your attitude mirrors the far right and is just as bad a take. That’s their approach to everything.

You did compare them to the far right though.

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[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

I never shut out opposing opinions... i merely said that i'm irritated by the anti-AI purists....

"All AI is facist and you are a facist/far-right/nazi if you use even a little bit of it " (not what you said, but a very common statement on lemmy)
"AI is a potentially useful technology that has a lot of negatove externalities. Let's work together to reduce the negatives and take the power back from big tech."

Which one of those stances sounds more like "Shutting out the opinion of people"?

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[–] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 4 points 1 day ago

I'm gonna point you at the comment chain I've got adjacent to this with Zeoic if you missed it. I think it's ultimately dancing around the same stuff and expresses my thoughts more cleanly on this topic.

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