you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

While I understand the sentiment (and harbor it myself) this sort of "I'm rubbing your face in it" rhetoric does nothing constructive. It isn't propaganda for would-be Trump cult survivors. It's mere pandering to those on the right side of history by sneering at "the other".

If I saw a crack in any of my MAGA-cult relative's façades or genuine walls I would leap at the opportunity to commiserate as an entry point to more reality-alignment discussion and see how far I could get.

People must stop doing harm before being taken back in as comrades but they're still human being who deserve, and must be allowed by society, the opportunity to improve themselves and their behavior.

Disallowing that leads to much worse alternatives. Barring genuine sociopathy: we seek, and are often driven by, acceptance. It's part of what soliciters of right-wing ideologies (e.g., manosphere) exploit, especially with young men, to convince them alignment with fascist theory as a way of life emotionally and sociopolitically must be within their best interest.

But let's even go so far as to discard empathy and sentiment for a moment. If we set our humanity aside and consider this strategically (transactionally) then I see this as an opportunity to potentially mitigate harm. I am going to seize that advantage. Even if I've lost hope for that particular cultist. Taking the time to be supportive of (what may only ever turn out to be) a lapse in otherwise perpetual cognitive misfire may divert their path from "worst outcome" to "unacceptable but not an active threat". I cannot effectively work with material if I find the material revolting.

I think even this colder perspective pushes us closer toward exercising empathy though. Because that's the pit in my stomach that churned injustice into compulsion for radical action. The deep-seated stark truth that every feeling creature deserves respect and the opportunity to create safety together. That the promises of authoritarian rhetoric are a perversion of literal civilization.

At possibly its most blunt and mundane: "I don't want other people abusing me, and; if I think I am the same thing other people are then it's not going to feel good, or be reasonable, for me to abuse others.

Sneering is for snobs. The snobbish turn their nose at impure things because of, at least in part, their disgust of what's stained them. Transposed onto persons directly that disgust reduces one or some of us to merely a point on which one may anchor one's rage.

I won't do that. Both because it offers no advantage in advancing even triage to response, let alone treatment, and because I find it distasteful, at best, without effort.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    A lot of us are just tired of dealing with the actual children that compose 90% of maga, you give someone 900 warning signs and they say "lol funny angry liberals!!" You're not sneering at them for being on the wrong side of history, you're sneering at them for ignoring every single sign on purpose because they thought it wouldn't affect them. It's like people watching videos of auschwitz and then turning in their neighbor anyway to own the libs. I can see people not being willing to use kid gloves with them after that.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    I'm not suggesting people engaged in evil do not deserve ire. Punch Nazis. Full stop. Neither am I suggesting we tread gingerly lest we offend. I'm asserting that constructive responses toward those open to correction align with our stated ideals and that destructive attacks which merely stroke the ego of the attacker do not.

    We should not want those lost to the cult of MAGA to self-flagelate and apologize because this is not about them and words are cheap. They need to see the harm they've helped cause and start actively counter-acting that harm.

    This meme is specifically directed at those who are realizing they've been conned. When someone breaks from delusion, especially delusion that has been central to identity, sharing that with anyone requires vulnerability. If hypocrisy is worth avoiding at all then its value increases wildly around such shared crossroads.

    Salt in the wound only benefits the salter who enjoys inflicting useless pain in others. We ought to be better than that. Inability to do so cannot justify the indulgence of cruelty.

    i.e., being tired of their bullshit confers no license to vindictive prejudicial lashings.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    If you're tired of dealing with them, you don't even need to express empathy as the gp post so eloquently described, just don't throw it back in their faces if they show signs of breaking away, even a little bit. If you don't have the energy to respond to them and try to expand that break, maybe someone else does, but if you are hostile you'll just drive them back into the darkness and make them that much harder to ever pull away.

    None of this means you have to welcome them with open arms, or even forget what they've done. Just give them a space to be less awful than they were. As the gp post said, thinking strategically we need to break away as many supporters of maga as possible, but that doesn't mean they immediately, or automatically, become allies.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    I'm not even opposed to the substance of what they're saying, it's just the way they've framed it as "eye for an eye" or "I told you so" is not fair at all. The amount of horror and loss they subjected everyone else to, while ignoring and waving off every warning sign. If someone lost their family because of trump they would call this guy a monster and be even more disgusted that now he cares only because he was personally affected. That's not an "I told you so haha."

    I am personally lucky enough to not be in the shoes of people who were impacted, so I try to do what you and op have said. If someone is affected though, I can say they should try and move forward and pull in someone who's learned better, but that's a huge ask to do for someone who has directly contributed to ruining parts of your life.

  • source
  • parent