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[–] 103 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

EDIT: She's a holocaust denier, which I didn't know. Guess she is a nazi after all!

Here's the link (from Political views of J. K. Rowling):

She is very much a TERF, an acephobe, kinda racist (just look at her character names), and therefore quite a horrible person; but, while it wouldn't surprise me if she was, she is not a nazi.

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  • [–] 47 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    She is however a holocaust denier

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  • [–] 20 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Source?

    I have seen zero credible sources for this specific claim of Holocaust denial. The closest I've found is that she argued that trans people weren't the first group targeted by the Nazis. (Not denying that they were targeted. Just disputing that they were first.) That's not the same as "Holocaust denial."

    I already know she's a bad person who uses her celebrity to spread hate and spends her time and money trying to further oppress some of the most marginalized people in the world. We can dislike her for those very real reasons without spreading false stories about her.

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  • [–] 37 points 4 days ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 23 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    jk rowling is definitely the type of person who will argue the holocaust didn't exist with george takei, who was literally in concentration camps during ww2.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 days ago

    I'm not following the logic here. I mean, he was in American concentration camps - not sure how that's relevant to claims about what the Nazis did. I know he's right, but it's not like he was there or anything.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Okay but, let’s be fair, not knowing the Nazis burned books on trans healthcare and research is not the same as denying the holocaust.

    I’m not saying she hasn’t denied the holocaust. I’m just saying this isn’t an example of that.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    Shes denying part of the holocaust. Whether that be from ignorance or otherwise idk and idc. Denying part of the holocaust is definitionally holocaust denial. Thats litterally the defining trait of the word

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (1 child)

    Denying part of the holocaust is definitionally holocaust denial.

    It really isn’t “definitionally” Holocaust denial. “Holocaust denial” as a linguist concept as understood by most people has nothing at all to do with denying the burning of trans literature.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

    "Deniers assert that the Holocaust is a fabrication or exaggeration,^[3][4][5]^making one or more of the following false claims:"

    and then an incomplete list of holocaust denialist claims. Thats from your own link

    J K Rowling is claiming the holocaust is exaggereted in them tweets, therefore: denying part of the holocaust as defined by the above.

    and holocaust denial is an academic term with a pretty precise definition, as much as it is a colloqial one.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    There's also a difference between not knowing something and implying that something is a lie (and sending that implication out to her millions of Twitter followers).

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  • [+] -2 points 4 days ago (1 child)
  • [–] 20 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    What are you doing on blahaj zone, mate? That's the trans instance. She denied the genocide of trans people during the holocaust. She denied the book burnings of the research by the institute of sex and gender research.

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  • [+] 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)
  • [–] 29 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    I read your article, and I found this:

    claims that trans people were ‘the first targets’ of the Nazis – a claim I refuted on X, and which led to these accusations

    - JK "Just Kidding" Rowling

    But that's a lie. Because she wasn't accused for saying that. She was accused for saying this:

    image

    Rowling had to lie about what she said, because she knows that what she said is incorrect and also holocaust denial.

    She has gone on to tell the same lie about why she's being attacked multiple times, despite having been fact checked on it and arguing back against the fact checking. Because she's a lying bigot.

    And it's not surprising that Jewish News UK printed these lies excusing holocaust denial, because they're lying fascists. They have a track record of supporting Israel's genocide. They like genocide, they're fascists who print lies!

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  • [+] 10 points 4 days ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 26 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 child)

    The Wikipedia also says

    the term Holocaust is sometimes used to include the murder and persecution of non-Jewish groups, such as the Romani and Soviet POWs.

    And I disagree, because it's not sometimes. It's most of the time.

    Encyclopedia Brittanica: Holocaust, the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by Nazi Germany

    History.com: The Holocaust was the state-sponsored persecution and mass murder of millions of European Jews, Romani people, the intellectually disabled, political dissidents and homosexuals by the German Nazi

    See, I think it's really irresponsible to do as Rowling does and make the Holocaust solely about Jewish people and not the other groups.

    First, the etymological argument. Holocaust means whole-burning. Not Jew-burning. It's not called the Loudaicaust, is it? Indeed, according to Wikipedia, people used to say "The Jewish holocaust" up until special importance was assigned to the Jewish persecution and people began to conflate the two.

    Second and more importantly, the ethical argument. When we assign special importance to the persecution of Jewish people, we forget the historical oppression of other groups. Which is exactly what Hitler, Rowling, and Netanyahu want us to forget. All three are aligned as fascists who want to tear down history and forget the suffering of those they deem subhuman. Anti-semitism does not exist in a vacuum. It always operates as part of a broader ideology we call fascism. The ideology of all three of these people. The Holocaust is what the fascists did. They did it to many different people. Never forget.

    And finally, you moved the goalposts. When you cited Jewish News UK, your position was that she didn't deny the persecution of trans people, because that's what Jewish News said. You've already lost the argument, and now you're trying to save face for Rowling by quibbling over technicalities.

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  • [+] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Modern Israeli politics aside, and thats a huge aside, saying that antisemitism doesn't exist is a bold claim seeing as the one thing you can bet on existing pretty much any time and any where in the last couple millenia is antisemitism.

    I'm not Jewish. I have no dog in this race. I just like going down history rabbit holes and it always makes me laugh when "Opinions on Jewish People" seems to show up randomly as a section on the wiki. Almost like it's a genetic predisposition in some people. It's fascinating.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Please tell us about modern-day antisemitism. It would actually be awesome to hear the examples cited in the video existing. Prove me wrong.

    And calling worldwide Jewish exceptionalism both in politics and in society "modern Israeli politics" is pretty fucking crazy, not gonna lie.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    You want a clear example of modern day antisemitism?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondi_Beach_shooting

    2025, a father-son duo go to "Chanukah by the sea" at Bondi Beach and shoot into the crowd, killing 15 people. Worst terrorist attack in Australian history.

    The media blames Palestine supporters, but I blame Netanyahu. See, he's been conflating Judaism and Zionism for years. He had to know he was inciting politically illiterate people who hate Zionism to also hate Judaism. And I think he wanted it. Because attacks like this, to the politically illiterate masses, sap support for Palestine. Governments get more support in policing anti-zionist speech as supposedly antisemitic.

    And it works because there is no denying that 15 people, including a 10 year old girl and an 87 year old holocaust survivor, were shot dead for attending a Jewish holiday. There is no denying that antisemitism happened here.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    On your last paragraph, I know. Rowling is a Nat-Z as well. That’s why I found it extremely unlikely that she’s a Holocaust denier

    What do you mean by this? Aren't most Nazis denying the Holocaust?

    and why I used a Jewish supremacist source as they would never let that slide.

    I'd argue the opposite. Supremacists of any kind don't care about facts and only care about "their side"

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Nat-Z stands for National Zionist. And I'm not a Jewish supremacist.

    What I meant by that was that any kind of rhetoric that would harm the Zio victim narrative in any way would get a huge hit piece from them, not defense.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Rowling has been on a rampant lawfare against organizations and individuals that call her on her bullshit, that's why there are many cases of people having to apologize to her publicly.

    Also why are you linking to a Zionist tabloid?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    But transphobia and nazism are different things

    Also, wouldnt holocaust denial be when you deny that the holocaust existed (to say that the nazis werent that bad), not when you deny that a certain group was targeted?

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  • [–] 13 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    I don't see anything about holocaust denial in your link. There's a 2018 article discussing parallels between her work and the real holocaust but it doesn't claim she's a denier. I don't really care for Rowling but I also don't like misinformation. If there is some evidence can you please share it?

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  • [–] 29 points 3 days ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 17 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    Imagine being so blinded by bigotry that you think that transgender people, of all the fucking groups, were the one group that nazis were totally cool with.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    I think she just doesn't believe trans identity is a real thing and that it wasn't yet "invented" in the 1930s.
    Not knowing what the fuck they're talking about is kind of a staple of transphobes.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    In her defense for some reason there just aren't many records of us in 1940s Germany /s

    In case anyone's unaware, that famous photo of nazis burning books, yeah those are records of trans people among other texts on queer sexology

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  • [–] 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Thanks for the source although I think that's quite specific. It seems mostly about her being ignorant and doubling down on her war against trans people rather than a blanket denial of the holocaust which the term "holocaust denier" conjures

    Your article frames it this way:

    While Rowling has not denied the Holocaust itself happened, she is accused of engaging in a form of Holocaust denial for questioning the persecution of trans people under the Nazi regime, a fact which has been well documented

    I'm not denying she's a cunt but I think it's important to be precise with these sorts of allegations.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

    I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. I personally haven't seen any evidence that she's anti-Semitic and that is the center of Holocaust denialism. I don't think her claims are driven by conspiracy theories. She just has a million Yes Men who encourage her anti-trans positions and it just feels right to her

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Honestly, calling everyone a nazi just feeds into the right's narrative of "oh they call everyone a nazi, ignore them".

    I'm not defending anyone, especially not J.K. Rowling, but this isn't helping our cause, quite the contrary actually.

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