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geneva_convenience banned me from their comm (inventing_reality) after simply asking if they demand we hold all Jews accountable for Israel. (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 days ago by to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
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Jews are not systemically oppressed anymore but clearly certain reactionaries sure do want them to be.

Collective punishment is always wrong. You can't just make your whole ideology out of fuckinslammer memes or you turn into this person.

Parenti fucking rolling in his grave rn. You do not get to invoke a foundational modern marxist while doing the opposite of material analysis.

Would you apply the same logic to Christians? Arguably Christians have done far more harm. Or are you defining Jews as an ethnicity? How is that better? Is there something genetic or is it religious?

These may seem like silly semantic differences but they are actually important and the people that make either argument are wrong for the same reason: Collective punishment and collective guilt is always reactionary.

Ironically some of these same people would say I am doing Jewish exceptionalism but are they not doing the same thing claiming this is an exceptionally Jewish form of fascism.

I do not believe such distinctions are productive but rather only serve to excuse one's own participation in similar relations. By invoking some sort of Jewish exceptionalism you are only absolving yourself of guilt and complicity. By definition when you claim there is some sort of Jewish exceptionalism at play you are implying they are a special uniquely bad group apart from the international white supremacist project that enables and requires the existence of Israel.

You claim to be denouncing special treatment of Jewish persecution and overcorrect into actual Nazism. Or to be more accurate I guess Strasserism.

I no longer care if people want to call me a zionist for pointing this out. You are just embarassed white supremacists trying to offload your crimes onto Israel, there is nothing Israel has done that the rest of the west has not done tenfold, all are complicit and blaming it on Jews is just Nazi shit. I will fight to the death for the Palestinian people but I will not tolerate any single person implying collective guilt. This goes for everyone, white, black arab, persian, etc.

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[–] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

Your response to Dort_Owl was upholding a certain statistical interpretation, one that says 'not that many' are anti-zionist. I don't think that kind of survey captures the broad and complicated way Judaism manifests as a social identity. Many of the anti-zionist Jews are, at this point, being called non-jews by the orgs you and I both critique. Whether they were secular or religious, they are going to be isolated and marginalized now more than ever. I'm friends with many anti-zionist Jews, and most of them are declining to identify as Jewish now not because they think they are not Jewish, but because it will cause them to be lumped in as guilt by association. Such a phenomenon will skew the figures from statistical surveys like this, as well as perception more generally.

I think we should be celebrating anti-zionist Jews and saying, "Yes, you CAN be Jewish and anti-zionist, actually," rather than lending support to the narrative that to be Jewish is, heuristically speaking or otherwise, to be Zionist. I support a more expansive conception of the situation, not a reductive one---which I take you to be endorsing with its entailments.

If you are not endorsing this reduction then so be it, hopefully my writing on the disentanglement of the complicated concept is enlightening to others all the same.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Ok, but 10% is still a surprisingly small number

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    With tens of billions of dollars spent directly on hijacking every Jewish institution for decades with the continuous backing of the entire western media apparatus and literal espionage and sabotage done against antizionist Jewish activists domestically, I don't think it's that surprising that it's a small number, though I am pretty sure in America it is higher than 10%.

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