Jews are not systemically oppressed anymore but clearly certain reactionaries sure do want them to be.

Collective punishment is always wrong. You can't just make your whole ideology out of fuckinslammer memes or you turn into this person.

Parenti fucking rolling in his grave rn. You do not get to invoke a foundational modern marxist while doing the opposite of material analysis.

Would you apply the same logic to Christians? Arguably Christians have done far more harm. Or are you defining Jews as an ethnicity? How is that better? Is there something genetic or is it religious?

These may seem like silly semantic differences but they are actually important and the people that make either argument are wrong for the same reason: Collective punishment and collective guilt is always reactionary.

Ironically some of these same people would say I am doing Jewish exceptionalism but are they not doing the same thing claiming this is an exceptionally Jewish form of fascism.

I do not believe such distinctions are productive but rather only serve to excuse one's own participation in similar relations. By invoking some sort of Jewish exceptionalism you are only absolving yourself of guilt and complicity. By definition when you claim there is some sort of Jewish exceptionalism at play you are implying they are a special uniquely bad group apart from the international white supremacist project that enables and requires the existence of Israel.

You claim to be denouncing special treatment of Jewish persecution and overcorrect into actual Nazism. Or to be more accurate I guess Strasserism.

I no longer care if people want to call me a zionist for pointing this out. You are just embarassed white supremacists trying to offload your crimes onto Israel, there is nothing Israel has done that the rest of the west has not done tenfold, all are complicit and blaming it on Jews is just Nazi shit. I will fight to the death for the Palestinian people but I will not tolerate any single person implying collective guilt. This goes for everyone, white, black arab, persian, etc.

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[–] 41 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Please at least link what you are talking about. https://lemmy.ml/post/52069875

you did not understand what they are saying at all it seems like.

Would you apply the same logic to Christians?

a lot of people already do and with good cause! Especially those that have to suffer under christian supremacism. It's silly to try to make a distinction between the colonisation of the americas and christians as if the colonisers weren't explicitly using christianity for genocide. Zionism is a jewish supremacist movement and trying to pretend it has nothing to do with judaism is only muddying the waters. The supposed country is even called "israel" for crying out loud

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  • [–] 33 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

    I think something that constantly gets lost in these back and forth arguments is the conditions that those in West Asia are affected by Zionism/Jewish Supremacy.

    Telling them they're being reactionary because they believe in Jewish Supremacy is like telling a person of color suffering under colonialism/neo-colonialism that they're being racist because they believe in White Supremacy.

    Obviously not all Jews are Zionists, but when you start to dictate to a victim of Israel that they are wrong even though the Judaism, as an institution, is responsible for their material conditions then you become the one ignoring material reality.

    We've had West Asian comrades chased off because their perspectives (and material realities) are looked down upon because too often people are quick to react and conflate that with Nazism/White Supremacist thoughts on Judaism. But if we have members here asking those same West Asian comrades to consider that not all Jews are Zionists, would we not apply the same logic and realize that when they speak about Jewish Supremacy it is not in the same way a Nazi would talk about Jewish Supremacy?

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  • [–] 21 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Telling them they're being reactionary because they believe in Jewish Supremacy is like telling a person of color suffering under colonialism/neo-colonialism that they're being racist because they believe in White Supremacy.

    Unfortunately the same people also love doing that

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 2 days ago

    I'm definitely not here to do that and I frankly don't care if Jewish people are upset about antizionist memes that stray over that line. What i am concerned about is the amount of energy other white people put into making this about Judaism. That is where it starts to raise my hackles.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    No I was simply replying to the premise of the op which was criticizing people for saying we probably should not conflate Jews as a whole with zionists. The only thing I could take from that was op demanding the opposite which is ridiculous.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 days ago

    No one is trying to conflate jews as a whole with zionists in the conversation you are talking about. The screenshot that post is about is even listing statistics explicitly oulining how it's "not all jews". The point is not "all jews are zionists" it's pushing back against the idea of zionism being distinct from judaism. It isn't. It's a part of judaism and it's history in the same way that the crusades or the inquisition are a part of christianity. And the statistics are supposed to highlight that it's not a small part of contemporary judaism either, but the vast majority and certainly the most powerful jewish institutions understand zionism as a core part of judaism.

    What you're doing however is heinous. You aren't just misrepresenting the argument, which could be handwaved as you not understanding it, but you are putting a screenshot of their modlog as the picture to your post. Not the argument, which you didn't even link, but you're trying to underhandedly paint them as a transphobe without outright stating it. I don't know if they are, but it is immaterial to the current conversation. This is not a good faith approach but an attempt at character assassination.

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