Actually pretty interesting. I think we're starting to creep up on the actual numbers, as far as you can measure such a thing. I think comphet keeps a lot of people who would otherwise fall somewhere on the bi/pan spectrum from ever experimenting and realizing it about themelves, and I bet that population is actually quite large. As far as transness goes, I would be willing to believe a number within the realm of ~3% to even 5%. I think further complicating this whole thing is that human sexuality and gender identity is a lot more nebulous than the very rigid, medically-originated terminology we use implies. A lot of the identity labels we use (homosexual, transsexual/transgender, etc) were originally medical diagnoses that were later transposed onto cultural identities, which carries a lot of baggage that I think has been left unaddressed, such as the rigidity of their definition, but that's probably for a post for another time. Anyway, just thought it was neat neat, especially the state queerness leaderboards.

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[–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

1,500 pages of Homosexuality of Men & Women spread across the
tomes that have been sitting on my desk for an embarrassingly long time.

You own it?! How?? I've seen it once in a while for sale at an antiquarian/specialist seller, generally with an asking price of at least a grand USD. In my region there is one copy at a public library and one copy in a university library. They aren't available for loan. I am discussing the English translation; if you are german-reader then I think it is somewhat easier to obtain (maybe?) but still a find. You don't need to answer any of that of course. The German version would at least be public domain (so cheap imprints are possible) whereas the English translation is so recent that the translator is still alive (and actively translating further works, thanks to him for his service) and the book being out of print and I doubt it sold many copies, very difficult to find.

Whether you should read it or not, I guess depends on what are your interests. It's for sure worth flipping through especially if you have on paper. I found it very provocative, to learn that "new" ideas are not so new. And that they were found by a totally different route than the modern incarnations. To me, all there is in there is questions questions questions. The path from there to here is quite mysterious and the explanations so far available are not satisfying to me.

One question, how this book came to be published. Like many things about this man, the historical work may not have been done yet (or I may only be unaware of it). Why is it 1500 pages long? It does not exactly warrant that many pages. To the extent that reading it does provoke questions like, "is this this book meant to be read?". Or was it produced as a decoration? Who actually bought it, which parts did they read, if any? I am not clear if the book itself had much influence, or the many other activities of Hirschfeld and those with whom he worked in various committees and groups were more important.

My issue isn't with Hirschfeld's work but rather with the terms in their modern form which have been almost completely stripped of all the detail you relayed.

Yeah it sucks what has been done! You were articulating a very broad consensus understanding, shared between a lot of people otherwise apparently at odds. Which has started to come away the past 10 or 20 years. I hope to learn more about the whole historical trajectory of these concepts.

How did the false history come to be so thoroughly accepted by everyone? This book of Gabriel Rockhill, Who Paid the Pipers of Western Marxism?, is really interesting and I would like to know how these two stories fit together. Even though it will likely not emerge to be at all complimentary overall to Hirschfeld, who's politics are like much else, not enough investigated or described, and not by people with the relevant expertise to evaluate. It seems that all the recent work on him is very liberal in origin, and kind of mindlessly positive (like what I wrote). I don't think this analysis is definitive. So one reason I would like for you to peek into Homosexuality is because I think the topic is desperate for marxist/communist perspective (which I assume you have). But there is lots of other source material to work from (and likely even more to be found for the enterprising).

Who knew that cracking your egg on 420chan's /cd/ would be so bad for you!

Sounds like it worked out just fine.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 day ago

    Apologies for the late reply, had some stuff come up.

    Sorry to get you excited, but I was referring to the Lombardi-Nash translations, not the original texts. I wish I was fluent enough in German to read the sources directly. When I ever get to that point, top of my reading list would be Das Dritte Geschlecht, which is a modern reprinting of a magazine of the same name that ran for 5 issues in the later Weimar years. It consists of a lot of work written by trans people themselves, as well as medical experts in the field, plus a variety of photographs.

    You bring up some really interesting questions about the text itself that I haven't thought about before. I haven't read Rockhill's book but I have listened to a couple of his talks about it, so I'm vaguely familiar with his thesis, and applying a similar lens towards the topic of trans medicine is very interesting. Based on my scattered reading, my guess would be that the answer is tied to the John Hopkins clique of physicians who eventually ended up inventing gender to "save binary sex from conceptual collapse". Embarrassingly, I have not finished it, but Histories of the Transgender Child is an excellent resource on that group and their work. The preface in the first Lombardi-Nash volume mentions that anti-German sentiment surrounding the First World War played a role in limiting Hirschfeld's reach outside the German speaking world. That, plus the infamous destruction of the Institute along with the fact that the vast majority of material (particularly the 'informal' stuff like patient notes) was never published abroad, meant that his work was buried under the other monumental historical events of the time. It's been a long while since I read it but I remember Heike Bauer mentioning in The Hirschfeld Archives: Violence, Death, and Modern Queer Culture that a lot of his surviving work was only unearthed recently.

    Thank you for the interesting lines of inquiry, it's given me a lot to think about and an interesting direction in which to take my research, other than just reading Hirschfeld for the sake of it. I'd like to be able to bring a Marxist/communist lens to all this, but I am hesitant to even call myself those things because I am guilty of the classic sin of Not Doing The Fucking Reading. You're right though, his politics are generally glossed over from what I've read. Heike Bauer makes mention of some of the topics he was curiously silent about, but the only indication of his actual politics I've come across in my reading was an off hand mention that the Institute would occasionally house members of the Comintern who were staying in/passing through Berlin.

    Anyway, not sure how to conclude, but thanks for chatting with me about this, it's given me a lot to think about! hirschfeld

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