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You made me look bad on stream (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 day ago* by to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[–] 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 child)

That is a fucking WILD statement coming from you, who's only defense is: "ITS A RIGHT WING TALKING POINT!!!!! PLEASE STOP SPREADING RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS!!!!!!!"

Brother, I said shock collars don't work on breeds like that given that the contacts have trouble making contact.

Heck, even Ethan Klein, an avid enemy of Hasan, even came out and said the supposed collar in use was a very mild sensation, far from "torturous."

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2571860/ethan-klein-investigates-shock-collar-controversy-surrounding-hasan-piker

You've got Hasan's statement, which you obviously discredit entirely as you've determined he's guilty already

https://www.out.com/voices/straight-nonsense-hasan-piker-s-dog-collar

And further, the pushing of this narrative has led to threats against Hasan himself as well as threats to kidnap Kaya.

https://www.documentarytube.com/blog/hasan-pikers-dog-shock-collar-controversy-explained/

All based on a couple of ambiguous clips.

If you trust video evidence infallibly, you probably trust police bodycam as it could never be interpreted or abused to support a narrative counter to what actually occured, right? Right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP4_2soVZe0

I've got the articles, reports, and clips that all leave this as inconclusive at best. But go on, what have you got? Where's your smoking gun that this is abuse? That this alleged shock collar was designed for maximum pain? The burn marks on the dogs yet? What have you got that we don't that allows you to make that judgement your honor?

Fucking Brandolini's law in action which is how right wing slop, racial supremacists, and grifters all shove themselves into discourse when they should remain as the dregs of society.

This is why I will infinitely respect those who take the time to educate themselves, look at objective reality, and come to an informed conclusions as opposed to drivel like you who work backwards from a preconceived idea and make claims with no evidentiary backing because you know it's easy, requires no effort on your part, and it'll get a rise out of people. Hence: right wing slop.

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  • [–] -3 points 17 hours ago (1 child)

    Brother, I said shock collars don’t work on breeds like that given that the contacts have trouble making contact.

    Which is factually wrong - there are collars that offer interchangeable contacts so you can adjust it for different dog breeds.

    You’ve got Hasan’s statement, which you obviously discredit entirely as you’ve determined he’s guilty already

    You'd be absolutely correct on that.

    And further, the pushing of this narrative has led to threats against Hasan himself as well as threats to kidnap Kaya.

    Which is obviously wrong, but doesn't make it a better situation lmao.

    If you trust video evidence infallibly, you probably trust police bodycam as it could never be interpreted or abused to support a narrative counter to what actually occured, right? Right?

    Well, yes. I'm not very familiar with how bodycams are used in america, but if we're looking at the entire situation and not just a small section that is misrepresented, I would absolutely trust the video evidence. To be fair, these days, it's a lot harder to tell with AI running rampant, but that's a non-factor in this case in particular as AI wasn't that powerful back when this happened.

    I'm not watching a 23 min video tho, sorry.

    But go on, what have you got?

    I mean, I have the original clip. You can find it on youtube aswell. He says: "Kaya, please, just fucking go back", does something off camera with his hand and then the dog yelps and goes back on his bed. There's nothing "inconclusive" about it.

    In all seriousness, idk what to tell you. If you want to believe he's innocent, you do you. I think it's sad that you excuse animal cruelty just because he's presumably on your side of the political spectrum, but I gotta tell you that you're not that far away from those people that excuse epstein and his friends because they like trump.

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  • [–] 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child)

    Provides no evidence, just says "lol bro no" as evidence and repeats unproved claims as fact.

    Which is factually wrong - there are collars that offer interchangeable contacts so you can adjust it for different dog breeds.

    And is that the model being used? Well? Cite your sources guy.

    I have the original clip. You can find it on youtube aswell. He says: "Kaya, please, just fucking go back", does something off camera with his hand and then the dog yelps and goes back on his bed. There's nothing "inconclusive" about it.

    Well, you proved you couldn't read earlier, but my sources literally link all the clips dumbass. From one of them:

    In a clip, Piker can be seen telling his dog to settle down and seemingly reaching off-screen when his dog suddenly yelps and then lies down.

    Wow, that's obviously torture, unequivocally, no denying it, adjudicated in the court of law. You, yourself even said "he does something off camera" too. What is something? It MUST be a torture device! Absolutely conclusive evidence. Probably one supplied by "Hamas" if we let unfounded claims like yours continue.

    Like, c'mon

    does something off camera with his hand

    There's nothing "inconclusive" about it.

    And:

    I'm not watching a 23 min video tho, sorry.

    Can't read or listen, makes sense. The videos show how the conclusions you get from cameras at specific angles don't show the whole story.

    If you can't handle that, how could we ever trust you to look at any evidence and make any kind of objective conclusion?

    You can't. Classic rightoid behavior. Like, again, whether you watch him or not, it's the same response Asmongold gives, saying he doesn't need to read, he just knows he's right. Like you. Not based on anything, you're "just right." "It's torture."

    No need to engage further, you've got nothing to stand on. Move on with your life. Maybe do a little reflection and you'd find some friends who actually respect you.

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  • [–] -3 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    Provides no evidence, just says “lol bro no” as evidence and repeats unproved claims as fact.

    Bro just watch the video? What more evidence do you need or want?

    Can’t read or listen, makes sense.

    Because I'm not wasting 23 minutes of my life watching a completely irrelevant video on bodycam problems in the US? Why would I give a shit about that. That's not even relevant. You haven't even responded to any of my answers to the questions you gave lmao. You don't even care - you just looking for ways to declare me "stupid" in your little world so you don't have to actually have any arguments.

    No need to engage further, you’ve got nothing to stand on.

    You've never had a single leg on the ground in this entire conversation. I told you multiple times: "There's the original video where X happens" and you never even acknowledged it. It's actually insane how ignorant you are, pretending you are in the right. Honestly you sound more like a malfunctioning LLM with god complex than a human being ngl.

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  • [–] 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child)

    Well, you definitely proved you couldn't read for a 3rd time. You don't even understand when you've been refuted.

    I've not called you stupid either, just that you're perpetuating right wing talking points which are, yes, stupid. I did call you a eurocuck betamale. Which, statistically, still holds and you didn't refute it so 🤷‍♂️

    But yes, at the point, if you can't mount a response when you say shit like:

    There's nothing "inconclusive" about it.

    In the same statement as

    does something off camera with his hand

    I can't argue with stupid, you're right.

    I stood on information, evidence, testimony, and the same clips you tried to say "just go watch bro." You've got nothing. Literally nothing.

    Also, how much time have you wasted here? The video and articles contain much more information than what I've condensed down. But you're still here. I've got time so 🤷‍♂️ This "LLM" is certainly more evidenced and principled than you, but interestingly it's not giving in to your bs. Weird, how do you explain that one?

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  • [–] -2 points 15 hours ago (1 child)

    Holy shit the only thing you're trying to stand on is that you can't know for sure what he did off camera? Well what will it fucking be, he pushed a button on the remote to activate the collar. There have even been streams where the remote was in plain view. I found the clip, sadly it's from xQc who's a dumbass himself, but all we need is the video, or actually the thumbnail is enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2LmnmI5sI

    So we know there's a remote. Now how far fetched is it he used that remote, which in turn causes the dog yelp.

    I’ve not called you stupid either,

    Yes, you have repeatedly called me stupid, or a "nicer variation" of it. At least stand by what you say.

    I did call you a eurocuck betamale. Which, statistically, still holds and you didn’t refute it so

    Yes, because it's the cringiest shit you could've said and I didn't think it relevant to the discussion as it's yet another ad hominem attack. I also thought this alpha/betamale shit is something andrew tate and these other clowns are spouting, but funny to see it has seen use in your vocabulary aswell.

    I stood on information, evidence

    No you didn't lmao. Not a single shred of evidence.

    You posted one news about ethan klein, one journalistic opinion without any evidence either and then referenced the violence towards hassan, which I have condemned myself, but doesn't change anything about the situation itself. There is no evidence here. Now, one might say I don't have any evidence either, which is certainly true, however, I think that my version of events holds up better if compared to the video. You think the dog just yelped for fun at that point in time?

    testimony

    Yeah, one by hassan himself, and the other by ethan klein, who's just guessing and I'm not sure how he gets to his conclusion, but mine is different.

    and the same clips you tried to say “just go watch bro.”

    You have not referenced the clip ONCE. All you have done is called me stupid, referenced completely irrelevant points on the side like my opinion on bodycams and when I said I'm not watching an irrelevant 23 minute video, you called me stupid again. Like, what are you even doing man.

    Also, how much time have you wasted here?

    Roughly 30 minutes I'd say, I'm just checking in every now and then during deadlock queue time.

    This “LLM” is certainly more evidenced and principled than you

    Well, this LLM is certainly hallucinating like a champ, but that's the only thing you're doing well.

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  • [–] 2 points 15 hours ago (1 child)

    Holy shit the only thing you're trying to stand on is that you can't know for sure what he did off camera?

    Literally no. That is what your argument did and still does stand on. Plausibility, not fact. You've proven a remote existed. Which is consistent with Hasan's testimony I shared (along with the clips you somehow refuse to admit that I referenced which are linked throughout the articles...mmmk).

    Now how far fetched is it he used that remote, which in turn causes the dog yelp.

    Anybody catch the licensce plate of those goalposts? That's pretty far fetched from there being nothing "inonclusive."

    Not a single shred of evidence

    The clips. The articles. The testimony. My whole point this entire time is that what you claim as inconclusive is not. You claim it is torture. You have no proof. You claim it was a shock collar. You have no proof. Get it through your skull. You're working backwards from your conclusion, literally saying "well how far-fetched of an idea is it?" That means you have to make a logical leap to get there, literally inconclusive, my god.

    Now, one might say I don't have any evidence either, which is certainly true, however, I think that my version of events holds up better if compared to the video.

    So you admit that I'm correct. You claim things as fact with no evidence. We got there. That's pretty far from "Hasan is an irrefutable animal abuser." Now it's "well, I think he is, and I have no evidence to back it up, but come on, I believe it so that must mean it makes sense."

    You think the dog just yelped for fun at that point in time?

    My dog has yelped for seeming no reason before. He's also slipped on a step and yelped before. He's also gotten his nail stuck on his kennel before and yelped. Again. Inconclusive. We cannot know. But I guess you do with no evidence?

    testimony

    Yeah, one by hassan himself

    You've already admitted you're a bad faith actor. You admitted previously that no matter what Hasan says you will discredit it. You then try to claim "conclusive" evidence. Those contradict, for any evidence to be conclusive, you'd have to weigh it against the testimony of the "perpetrator" and it would need to hold up. Not "but c'mon bro, it's not that far fetched." You forfeited being worth taking seriously with that earlier.

    other by ethan klein, who's just guessing and I'm not sure how he gets to his conclusion

    So guessing is literally buying the collar you and others allege is doing the "torture" and testing it on himself. If you knew how to read, you'd be sure how he got there.

    referenced completely irrelevant points on the side like my opinion on bodycams

    Sorry, I didn't realize it had to be spelled out explicitly. You see, when a camera films from a single frame of reference, there cam be an interpretation of events, but it is limited by what is in frame of reference and what is not. People have been imprisoned using bodycam footage, claimed to be "all you nees to reference, it's clear as day" only to be exonerated later with further evidence or different angles that tell a completely different story. In this exact case, you would be the police alleging that this man tortued an animal. A remote is there, the dog yelps, it's all connected. Then, something would come out, perhaps that the collar is not a shock collar for example, such as the testimony, which changes the story completely from what you believe and is equally as plausible. That is the definition of being inconclusive as both stories are plausible with all the evidence presented thus far. Does that help? A "but is it that far-fetched" doesn't suddenly make one more conclusive than the other. And attempting to treat claims as verified fact while these remain inconclusive is bad faith.

    Roughly 30 minutes I'd say, I'm just checking in every now and then during deadlock queue time.

    So 23 minutes to easily educate yourself, or even attempt to refute what I put forth, but you can't be bothered. That tracks. Half that on 2x. Same reasoning is used to "keep x country for x" currently around the world. Hence why we call you out as a rightoid which you've also not refuted.

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  • [–] -2 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

    Literally no. That is what your argument did and still does stand on. Plausibility, not fact. You’ve proven a remote existed.

    Okay - so we know there's a remote. We also know he was reasonably angry at the dog, and we know he reached towards something, then the dog yelped. And you don't think that's enough "coincidences" to no longer be a coincidence? Are you just willfully ignorant at this point? Because if that's the case, any further discussion is indeed futile.

    So you admit that I’m correct.

    No, I don't, that's something you just pulled out of your ass.

    You claim things as fact with no evidence

    With no direct evidence - yes. There's a difference between "no direct evidence" and "no evidence at all". But guess what - if enough coincidences come together, they form evidence. In most murder cases, you never know if the TRULY killed the person, but you have finger prints, you have a lack of an alibi, you have a motive etc. All that comes together as a case. It's not like if nobody sees you literally putting the knife into the chest, you're gonna be free.

    There's a lot of things we know happened but aren't sure. Hell, we don't know for sure if the 1985 beirut bombing was truly a CIA op, as some later investigations considered. There's also no actual evidence of trump ACTUALLY fucking kids on epstein island - but (and that's one of the few things we agree on in this entire discussion) I think that all the coincidences and relations come together and form a pretty conclusive picture.

    And I think that in the hassan case, there's just too much "coincidences" to still be considered coincidence.

    My dog has yelped for seeming no reason before. He’s also slipped on a step and yelped before. He’s also gotten his nail stuck on his kennel before and yelped. Again. Inconclusive. We cannot know. But I guess you do with no evidence?

    The dog yelping in a vacuum wouldn't be a problem. Again - it comes together with hassan being angry with his dog AND him reach off screen. That's what forms the evidence.

    You’ve already admitted you’re a bad faith actor. You admitted previously that no matter what Hasan says you will discredit it.

    I don't think I am. I barely knew about the guy before the dog incident, the only time I heard about it was because LTT was building a PC for him lol. But yes, you're right - I don't believe the word of the guy because of course he would try to defend himself to save his reputation.

    You then try to claim “conclusive” evidence

    I think, if we look at the entire situation and how it happened - it's fairly conclusive.

    Then, something would come out, perhaps that the collar is not a shock collar for example

    Okay, but where is that "something". There is no something. He claimed it was a "vibration collar", which has been debunked already because people found the exact brand of the device he was using, and it's a shock collar. And there has been no something since.

    And attempting to treat claims as verified fact while these remain inconclusive is bad faith.

    No, it's really not. The combination of multiple claims can be evidence, as I've stated multiple times by now.

    However, tl;dr: I believe the video and the order of events in the video fit to him using a shock collar, you don't. Any further discussion regarding this topic is just kinda pointless as we're just going in circles. I will refer to the video, you will say: "Well we don't know what he did off camera.". I'm not sure if you are genuinely not sure and you want to give him the benefit of the doubt or you know damn well what he did, but that would make a big supporter of your political agenda look bad.

    Whatever you do with this, have a nice rest of the day! :)

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  • [–] 2 points 13 hours ago

    I do agree we're going in circles and you've now backtracked significantly from "it's irrefutable and conclusive, he's an animal abuser" to "well, there's a couple of circumstances where maybe this happened." You went from nothing being inconclusive to a few circumstances that line up. There's a legal distinction between evidence and circumstantial evidence for a reason.

    There is no something. He claimed it was a "vibration collar", which has been debunked already because people found the exact brand of the device he was using, and it's a shock collar.

    So, one thing which I've been hammering on. You're now saying, again, we unequivocally know the exact model number of the shock collar. A claim without any proof. That's my point and has been the whole time. People online can claim whatever they want. Sometimes it's true. Most times it's not. Meanwhile, we've got an entire anti-vax movement based on claims like this. But we also all know Trump is a co-conspirator in the Epstein files. These are circumstantial as you've said based on what we have, but I'd lean to the anti-vax level of assertion because we needs lots of assumptions, which is what I've been saying.

    Again, if you have irrefutable proof of what collar it was, please, share it. A screenshot from Hasan's stream with the model # visible, etc. (Though that also ignores the Ethan claim of it not being torturous like you claim, being mild at best) I'm sure you'd bring down Hasan at that point, similar to how actually credible accusations finally brought down Graham Platner. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but I won't stand on faulty ground and claim facts based on assumptions. That was my whole point this entire time. And you're right, based on what's available, I don't believe it. You do. That's fine. I'm just pointing out how incredibly shaky your "irrefutable, evidence based judgement" really is and how you've retreated multiple times to more defensible positions.

    So, if you'd like to pull out, feel free. My points stand solidly as I haven't had to retreat this whole time.

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