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[–] 3 points 1 month ago (10 children)

So the whole idea of 'both sides are the same' is ludicrous when the above info is added to the mix

This is not the meaning of the meme. Even if you take it in the most literal sense.

Many countries with parliamentary systems have two major parties who serve similar functions, but I think the america experience is really unique. Sure, a system with n number of parties could end up with the same effect but one of the biggest differences is that you don't have one party (successfully) dodging accountability because they are "better option."

In the 2021 canadian election no party got > 50% of the seats so a confidence and supply agreement had to be made. The center right party (Liberal) made an agreement with the slightly more left NDP. We got universal coverage for drugs started. There is no way that would have happened without the NDP making that agreement. At any time until the 2025 election, the NDP could have forced an election if they didn't like what was happening.

Another way to look at what the meme represents is an edge reinforced random walk. Imagine a tug of war with a rope of infinite length so it can't end. If you assume each election is random but the chance of winning increases ever so slightly for the next election (like an incumbent). Each election win pulls the rope in your direction. Because of the slight advantage to the previous winner, the rope will move in one direction over time and it will never return to the start.

When elections can happen because the government can't agree enough to pass legislation this gives parties the chance to run hard on a certain topic they know people care about. Yes, the promises are often not realistic but people also take away their votes from the main parties when they are mad. It's a lot harder to say "vote for me or bad things will happen" when you know you're not signing up for a set term.

In a two party system elections are a zero sum game. The parties need to try to appeal to everyone to win elections and the people are agreeing to let the elected officials govern the for a set term no matter what. It cannot reflect the desires of the population as new issues come up and there is no motivation to push for anything people who vote for the other party night not like. That means you can't win them over.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (9 children)

    You make many good points IMO, and you also cover a greater political scope than this 'meme' / insight (or whatever) specifically addresses, and that's cool and educational for the likes of me, and whoever else.

    ...BUT...

    This is not the meaning of the meme. Even if you take it in the most literal sense.

    IMO you're wrong when you say that in an absolutist sense. In fact, it very much *IS* the meaning of the graphic when it comes to the USA, if at least only in part. I.e., the concerns I wrote about weren't artificial, and memes / useless promotion of thinking as in the OP aren't purely illusionary. And yes, I get that the message may indeed by multifactorial or a bit more nuanced than I fully addressed.

    Mate-- the bottom line when it comes to the upcoming USA midterms is that the things I describe are real, known, serious problems in the States in recent-ish years, even if in your opinion the graphic doesn't precisely represent the toxic-thought mechanisms involved.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    IMO you're wrong when you say that in an absolutist sense.

    What do you see as the most literal interpretation?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (7 children)

    I think it's pretty clear, closely following the words in the OP message.

    You could be a casual or someone who doesn't follow US politics very closely, and come away with the message "ah, so that's how it works. Good to know!"

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    It did seem clear to me originally, but your first reply to me makes me think you are seeing it very differently than I do, and I'd like to understand what you are seeing. It sounds like I fell into the trap of thinking that even without adding analysis the words and images would have the same literal meaning to all.

    You're obviously under no obligation to respond but maybe my question will be more clear if I am explicit in what the most literal interpretation is to me. I'll include the text in the meme because you have mentioned it.

    The Ratchet Effect How you are being duped by the fake two party system

    I read this as an introduction to the image below, and that the image intended to demonstrate how the two party system is not what it seems.

    Democrats block movement back to the left (Image of a pawl)

    Democrats are the force that prevent the policy of the government from moving left.

    Republicans turn everything to the right (Image of a ratchet gear)

    Republicans are the force that drive movement of government policy to the right.

    My most literal interpretation is that this meme is describing the two parties as different. A pawl and a ratchet gear serve different functions. They are not the same thing. Driving policy to the right is not the same as preventing policy from moving back left. This is what I meant when I said "both sides are the same" is not the most literal meaning.

    The next thing I am going to say is an interpretation of the implied meaning of the heading, so it's no longer literal.

    How you are being duped by the fake two party system

    Taken with the images below I understand this to be implying that people may believe that the two party system is intended to move policy in either direction depending on which group is in power. The meme is saying this isn't accurate and describes the way the system works.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    The meme is saying this isn’t accurate and describes the way the system works.

    It really doesn't, though. In reality, it describes a chronic problem with corporate and sellout-style dems as I see it, but not the whole of the system.

    That's the problem, and that's essentially my main point.

    And I do appreciate your efforts to reach out and clarify things. Respect.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    In reality, it describes a chronic problem with corporate and sellout-style dems as I see it, but not the whole of the system.

    Can you help me see how this is a literal interpretation?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    I think I've covered everything of relevance from my end. Is there a deeper point you're searching for?

    And does "literal interpretation" mean something especially relevant to you..?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    I think I'm having difficulty understanding this:

    IMO you’re wrong when you say that in an absolutist sense.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Oh, it's that I felt you were coming on too strong right at that one point,
    on top of the fact I'm both sad and fearful upon the potential harms upon that certain loose, overall message.

    But it was rude of me to express it to that extent, and I apologise.
    I messed up, sorry.

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