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me when I hear the phrase "biological male(s)" 😖 (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 month ago by [M] to c/transmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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[–] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

I agree that the term is mostly used to bully people. But to be fair, you're inventing your own definition for the word.

The definition you're using:

male socialization (n): the cultural conditioning produced by a patriarchal society

The standard definition:

male socialization (n): the cultural conditioning applied to those in society assigned male at birth

As far as usefulness, it does have actual positive use even in the trans community. Sure, some portion of the trans community doesn't care about passing, but most do. And if you're a binary trans person actually trying to be seen and treated by strangers as your gender, adjusting your behavior is part of this. Cis society expects men and women to behave differently. Boys and girls are raised differently to reflect this behavior.

And for a lot of trans people, a bit of deconstructing of their own male or female socialization is necessary if they want to integrate into a binary role in society. Even just simple things like how men are conditioned to take up space, while women are conditioned to take up less space. If you're a trans woman and you seek to blend into society, if you don't work on some of your male socialized behaviors, you're likely not going to be able to pass. Sure, some trans people just completely reject the socialization forced upon us, but most of us don't. Most of us absorbed a lot of our gendered socialization growing up as a survival mechanism. And for most trans people, deconstructing that socialization is part of transition.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    male socialization (n): the cultural conditioning applied to those in society assigned male at birth

    I guess my problem here is that I don't consider that definition as being descriptive of a coherent and observable phenomenon. Idk, I'm having trouble trying to understand what it's even supposed to mean here, could you perhaps be more specific wrt what that actually entails?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    No disrespect, but have you like...gone outside? Parents raise boys and girls differently. The differences in the ways (on average) those seen as boys or girls are raised and treated IS what we call male/female socialization.

    First, immediately abandon any absolute idea here. We're talking generally, broad averages. Yes, everyone is unique. Yes, no two people are socialized exactly the same.

    Do you really not understand how differently society raises those perceived as male and female? Are you blind to how society treats adults that it reads as male or female? That is socialization - the gendered treatment you receive based on how you are perceived.

    Below I'll provide a list of examples. But warning, try not to get hung up on the idea that these have to be universal. For example, one aspect of gendered socialization is that those perceived as men are more encouraged to go into contact sports like football or wrestling. You personally may never have had an interest in sports, but that's irrelevant when we're talking about society as a whole.

    Those read assigned male at birth, on average, tend to be:

    • Forced or encouraged to wear shorter hair.
    • Strongly discouraged or prevented from using makeup.
    • More strongly encouraged to study STEM subjects.
    • Trained to take up maximum space. (See man-spreading.)
    • Trained to carry a wallet.
    • Encouraged to play with action figures and toy soldiers.
    • Trained to speak up and talk over others.
    • Trained to expect a woman to get out of your way.
    • Dressed in blue and given blue toys as an infant.
    • Taught to avoid most skin care and beauty techniques.

    Those read assigned female at birth, on average, tend to be:

    • Forced or encouraged to longer hair.
    • Encouraged or required to wear makeup.
    • More strongly encouraged to social sciences and pink-collar fields.
    • Trained to minimum space.
    • Trained to carry a purse.
    • Encouraged to play with dolls.
    • Trained to let others speak first.
    • Trained to get out of the way of a man.
    • Dressed in pink and given pink toys as an infant.
    • Taught to take skin care and beauty techniques very seriously.

    And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Again, it would be a mistake to respond to this saying, "but no one ever taught ME one of those items," or "I was taught that way, but I rejected it!" We're talking about broad societal averages, not what one person in particular experiences.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Again, it would be a mistake to respond to this saying, "but no one ever taught ME one of those items," or "I was taught that way, but I rejected it!" We're talking about broad societal averages, not what one person in particular experiences.

    Ok sure, but this discussion is about how (if at all) it applies specifically to a demographic where these pressures often don't stick, and if it's still a useful concept in this application. No disrespect, but have you gone outside…? Because most of the trans women I know don't act like men, and even before coming to terms with their identities didn't really embody what you've described here, to a point where I don't think that trans women not being "male socialised" according to your given definition are individual outliers, but rather that your model of gendered socialisation just… isn't broadly applicable to trans women…?

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