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[–] 0 points 3 months ago (19 children)

China has a high per captia co2 emissions than the EU by a significant margin. For all the "good" they've done in renewables they've done just as much damage expanding their non renewable power. Its sad that you fall for such obvious greenwashing I thought people of lemmy were more inteligent than that. The anti desertification is pretty much DOA since China is already struggling with water and the forest is artificial and monocultured. They've cut down forests to build factories, they zone factories to close to residential areas leading to cities with some of the lowest air quality in the world. They dont rotate crops and destory the soil nutrients, they dam up every river destroying downstream ecosystems, they pollute water systems that feel into their own villages. To act like they build solar panels out of a car for the environment is naive. They made the choice to ignore global efforts to reduce emissions should everyone be allowed to do that?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (18 children)

    You're looking at total emissions within the EU vs. total emissions within China compared to their respective populations. This is, frankly, a ridiculous way to look at emissions, considering neither country produces everything it consumes (though China is far closer). The EU has lower emissions per capita because it doesn't produce much, and instead relies on imperialism and neocolonialism, importing much of what it consumes with little regard for environmental protections from the countries it consumes from. The actual net impact of a European is far higher than someone in China.

    It's odd that you accuse me of "greenwashing,* when you're falling hook, line, and sinker for it. The EU pretends to be green by erasing the fact that it consumes far more per capita, with far worse of an environmental impact. It's as simple as that. China's expansion of non-renewables pales in comparison to its rising rates of green energy and electrification. China's air quality is likewise rising rapidly. We do not live in 2004 any longer, yet your information comes straight from those eras.

    It isn't China that's ignoring green initiatives, it's the EU pretending like they care while still operating on imperialism and neocolonialism.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (17 children)

    No im looking at the per captia stat. Everything you said is cope

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (16 children)

    Yes, "per capita" going by total emissions within the respective countries and dividing it by the populace, not actually taking into account consumption and where that comes from. It's incredibly ironic that you call correctly analyzing the greenwashing and imperialist apologia you did "cope" without engaging with any of what I said.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    Why would consumption matter? China chooses what it wants to manufacturer. If China had better environmental standards and didnt just blast coal and dump into rivers then the EU would manufacturer more of its own goods. Thats a China fault and has nothing to do with the EU. I engaged with all of your cope you're just bending yourself over backwards trying to defend this.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Consumption matters because it's the actual, net impact of someone. The EU cannot produce what it needs anymore because they are imperialist, bank and industrial capital merged into monopoly long ago. Finance is what drives the EU, not production, and as a consequence it does not produce what it needs to survive. The EU depends on super-exploitation of foreign labor, neocolonialism to ensure access to raw materials, and greenwashes by erasing this dependency on the global south.

    Imagine a landlord, saying that nobody needs to work to live because they simply own property. The problem with this is immediately clear, as long as there are landlords, there are tenants that they rely on, without the tenants there is no landlord, and these tenants must perform labor to pay their rent. It's the same with the EU as the landlord, producers like China as the tenants, and emissions as labor. The EU erases its own dependency on emissions by pretending that they are independent from them.

    As for China, they have far stronger environmental regulations than you seem to think. China today is lightyears ahead of the China of the 80s and 90s, which you seem trapped into picturing them as. China's ecosocialist initiatives far exceed those of the EU, and matter far more because they produce what much of the world actually relies upon. Their per capita emissions are very low when compared to consumption, yet are still working to tackle climate change as best as they can. The EU essentially pushes their responsibilities onto others.

    There's no cope here, you just fundamentally do not seem to understand how greenwashing and imperialism work.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    If we're taking into account consumption then China is even worse. They are over half the worlds emissions. They should have a bigger focus on reducing that. Their eco positive initiatives are barely a drop in the bucket compared to all the damage they've done.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (12 children)

    By individual consumption, China is doing well and getting better. You still have not grasped my point. China's emissions are largely for the consumption of other countries, that these other countries rely on, and get to greenwash by simply not producing anything.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (11 children)

    No country can force china to make something. China chooses to and because they dont care about emissions or environmental regulation its cheaper.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    China is the only country with anywhere close to its productive capacity taking such a hard stance on decreasing emissions, precisely because they aren't dominated by the profit motive. Imperialist countries greenwash by pretending they aren't reliant on production done outside.

    It's like a landlord bragging that they don't need to work to live. Someone has to work so the landlord can live, it just isn't the landlord.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (9 children)

    not true there are plenty of countries that could have scaled if they ignored calls to reduce emissions

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    China isn't ignoring calls to reduce emissions, it's one of the only countries effectively meeting them while producing what the entire world relies upon. That you continue to fall for the green washing from imperialist countries blaming China for their own parasitic economies is baffling.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    China isnt ignoring calls to reduce emissions they've just spent the last 15 years exponentially increasing emissions.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Per capita consumption, ie the actual environmental impact of the average citizen of China, is far below the EU. You're falling for greenwashing while China continues to focus on creating an actually green producer country, instead of pretending the fact that you don't produce anything means you're good environmentally.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Per captia consumption is not relevant to emissions. China chooses to manufacturer with low regulation and dirty power sources. They cant then turn around and say its the EU citizens fault for buying from them. China is poor in every single environmental stat and you've run down the entire list to the point where you're trying to argue on per captia consumption. By the way half of china's population is rural and poor the other half are very close to the EU citizens in consumption.

    The EU does produce goods and they have strong environmental regulations but you cant compete against the country that is willing to poison its own rivers to avoid the cost of proper disposal. That makes the EU far ahead of China and this is ignoring things like labour laws, healthcare, justice etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    Per capita consumption is critical for understanding emissions, because they tell us how much the world has to give up to support the lifestyles of a given country. The global north consumes far more per capita in an entirely unsustainable way, and greenwashes by producing very little of their own consumption, thereby blaming the sources of their lifestyles for underdeveloped energy.

    Further, China is making far greater strides towards a green system than the EU. The EU's healthcare system, and other social safety nets, are funded through imperialism, which you keep ignoring. The imperialist countries are parasitic on the planet, produce little of value, and yet consume the bulk of production globally.

    This is what you greenwash for.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    China undercut western manufacturing to produce goods at a lower cost with higher emissions and less environmental safety. No one forced them to do that. China is way behind the renewable transition compared with the EU. They are still powered by coal and still dumping into their rivers.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    China is a developing country, and yet is doing far more for the planet than the EU in its construction of an ecological and productive society. The EU is parasitic and imperialist, it depends on exploiting low wages globally in order to continue to exist, which is why it's falling into chaos and to the far right as their superprofits are drying up. The EU is parasitic and is far more damaging to the world than China because they depend on consumption of other countries without producing much at all themselves.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    China is developed and they are the main driver of global warming. Everything you attack the EU for is out of their control and in chinas control. No one is forcing china to make goods, no one is forcing them to dump chemicals in their rivers, no one is forcing them to have zero labour laws, no one is forcing them to use the least environmentally friendly production methods. This is all well within the control of the CCP and its an active choice to not implement that policy.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    China is a developing country. The idea that China is developed while being largely rural and still undergoing rapid development is silly.

    Everything I attack the EU is in the EU's control. The EU did not need to become imperialist, super exploiting the global south for super profits. The EU did not need to colonize Africa, Asia, and the Americas. The EU did not need to de-industrialize while retaining imperialism so as to push all of the dirty work required to sustain their lifestyles on the backs of foreign labor.

    China on the other hand is rapidly improving electrification, expanding green energy, qualitatively transforming how they produce and consume so as to have a lower carbon footprint, and much more. They are not mass dumping chemicals in rivers, nor do they have "zero labor laws," in reality they have strong labor protections and the largest Union in the world. They use environmentally friendly methods and are only improving on this fact.

    You're confusing your chauvanism for reality.

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