Enough Musk Spam

2198 readers

426 users here now

For those that have had enough of the Elon Musk worship online.

No flaming, baiting, etc. This community is intended for those opposed to the influx of Elon Musk-related advertising online. Coming here to defend Musk or his companies will not get you banned, but it likely will result in downvotes. Please use the reporting feature if you see a rule violation.

Opinions from all sides of the political spectrum are welcome here. However, we kindly ask that off-topic political discussion be kept to a minimum, so as to focus on the goal of this sub. This community is minimally moderated, so discussion and the power of upvotes/downvotes are allowed, provided lemmy.world rules are not broken.

Post links to instances of obvious Elon Musk fanboy brigading in default subreddits, lemmy/kbin communities/instances, astroturfing from Tesla/SpaceX/etc., or any articles critical of Musk, his ideas, unrealistic promises and timelines, or the working conditions at his companies.

Tesla-specific discussion can be posted here as well as our sister community /c/RealTesla.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

1029

Elon's got Putin's back. (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

246 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Aiding a terrorist regime by disabling this attack and losing Ukrainian assets. Acting as a foreign agent by discussing this with Putin. That's two, right there.

We've sanctioned Russia heavily for this and begun providing that money to Ukraine as relief. They've stolen children from Ukraine. Elon is a war criminal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Laws don't apply to the rich my dude, we know this. Besides, if it were illegal to meddle with foreign states, there's a laundry list of US administrations that would be guilty of that

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And how is this against the USA law?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

First point:

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-16-providing-material-support-designated-terrorist-organizations

PROVIDING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS (FUNDRAISING) (18 U.S.C. 2339B)
The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 gave the Secretary of State authority to designate foreign terrorist organizations whose terrorist activity threatens the security of United States nationals or the national defense, foreign relations or economic interests of the United States. See Pub. L. 104-132, § 302, 110 Stat. 1214, 1248. See also section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. § 1189). The Antiterrorism Act also created 18 U.S.C. § 2339B, which makes it unlawful, within the United States, or for any person who is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States anywhere, to knowingly provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization that has been designated by the Secretary of State. See Pub. L. 104-132, § 303, 110 Stat. 1214, 1250.

Note: The HARM act hasn't passed yet, so this might be on shaky grounds. But he may yet find himself in violation. Also, I'm not a lawyer, and I'd bet there's better ways to prosecute this.

Second point:

https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions

What is FARA?

FARA is an acronym for the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938, as amended, 22 U.S.C. § 611 et seq. (“FARA” or “the Act”). FARA requires the registration of, and disclosures by, an “agent of a foreign principal” who, either directly or through another person, within the United States (1) engages in “political activities” on behalf of a foreign principal; (2) acts as a foreign principal’s public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee, or political consultant; (3) solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of a foreign principal; or (4) represents the interests of the foreign principal before any agency or official of the U.S. government. In addition, FARA requires agents to conspicuously label “informational materials” transmitted in the United States for or in the interest of a foreign principal. There are some exemptions to FARA’s registration and labeling requirements for specified categories of agents and activities.

What are the penalties for violating FARA?

The penalty for a willful violation of FARA is imprisonment for not more than five years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both. Certain violations are considered misdemeanors, with penalties of imprisonment of not more than six months, a fine of not more than $5,000, or both. There are also civil enforcement provisions that empower the Attorney General to seek an injunction requiring registration under FARA (for applicable activities) or correcting a deficient registration statement.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You'd have a tough time in court with this one.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Elaborate

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

PROVIDING MATERIAL SUPPORT TO DESIGNATED TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS (FUNDRAISING) (18 U.S.C. 2339B)

Russian federation is not in the US's list of terrorist organization
He did not provide anything to Russian federation

FARA requires the registration of, and disclosures by, an “agent of a foreign principal” who, either directly or through another person, within the United States
(1) engages in “political activities” on behalf of a foreign principal;

You'd have a hard time proving that this falls under "political activity" and that he did it because of foreign influence.

(2) acts as a foreign principal’s public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee, or political consultant;
(3) solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of a foreign principal; or
(4) represents the interests of the foreign principal before any agency or official of the U.S. government. In addition, FARA requires agents to conspicuously label “informational materials” transmitted in the United States for or in the interest of a foreign principal. There are some exemptions to FARA’s registration and labeling requirements for specified categories of agents and activities.

He does not do anything of this sort

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Under FARA see "information-service employee, or political consultant." I think there's a strong argument there that he saw activity on StarLink, discussed it with Putin and then publicly walked that shit back when he realized it was criminal after the fact to cover it up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Have you actually read that law?

The term "information-service employee" includes any person who is engaged in furnishing, disseminating, or publishing accounts, descriptions, information, or data with respect to the political, industrial, employment, economic, social, cultural, or other benefits, advantages, facts, or conditions of any country other than the United States or of any government of a foreign country or of a foreign political party or of a partnership, association, corporation, organization, or other combination of individuals organized under the laws of, or having its principal place of business in, a foreign country;

Translated from legalese, that means a person who's posting stuff like "move to Russia, we have oat cookies, beautiful women, and unwoke laws". To my knowledge, Musk does not promote Russia, nor has legal entity within Russia.

The term "political consultant" means any person who engages in informing or advising any other person with reference to the domestic or foreign policies of the United States or the political or public interest, policies, or relations of a foreign country or of a foreign political party.

That would require Musk to be employed as an advisor to someone. I don't think there's anyone who could call Musk his advisor, nor a person that Musk could say he's working as an advisor for. After all, he's the richest man in the world, nobody could afford such a service.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

But one could prove it