▲ 116 ▼ [CW: nazi shit] pram glatner (thelemmy.club) submitted 3 months ago* by sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml to c/memes@hexbear.net 83 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (14 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago* (13 children) You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It's fake. There's no such thing as overton window. There's no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (5 children) I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism. This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie's ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas That isn't what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie's popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn't just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called """overton window""" can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (4 children) Privation alone isn't enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That's why you need a vanguard party, and that's why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn't in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they're poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (5 children) "ultra" there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can't wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago* (13 children) You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It's fake. There's no such thing as overton window. There's no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (5 children) I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism. This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie's ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas That isn't what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie's popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn't just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called """overton window""" can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (4 children) Privation alone isn't enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That's why you need a vanguard party, and that's why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn't in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they're poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (5 children) "ultra" there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can't wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (5 children) I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism. This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie's ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas That isn't what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie's popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn't just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called """overton window""" can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (4 children) Privation alone isn't enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That's why you need a vanguard party, and that's why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn't in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they're poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (5 children) "ultra" there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can't wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago* (5 children) I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism. This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie's ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas That isn't what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie's popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn't just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called """overton window""" can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (4 children) Privation alone isn't enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That's why you need a vanguard party, and that's why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn't in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they're poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (4 children) Privation alone isn't enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That's why you need a vanguard party, and that's why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn't in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they're poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blakey@hexbear.net 8 points 3 months ago (1 child) But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party. They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago Oh, just to be clear, I didn't mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist's comment. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago* (1 child) His messaging was so misleading that we're still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BeanisBrain@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago Yeah, that's a much better point. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (5 children) "ultra" there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can't wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (3 children) If you don't like Hasan, don't like Platner and don't believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it's not what you believe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InexplicableLunchFiend@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 child) I said response or comment. Not post. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ConcreteHalloween@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
