this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023

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[POLL] Do you use/require a headphone jack on your phone? (strawpoll.com)

submitted 3 years ago by d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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Alternatively, if your current phone doesn't have a headphone jack, do you wish it did?

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 8 points 3 years ago* (2 children)

So I have a:

Sony WH-1000XM5 (which I use in both wired and Bluetooth modes)
Galaxy Fold 4
MacBook Air M1

These are all fairly recent devices, with the Sony one being the most recent headphones in it's series, running the latest firmware too, which was released last month.

Now here are my issues:

- Fold 4: When I get a call on Google Meet or Duo and I turn on my headphones, the audio doesn't work. I have to disconnect the call, close the app, and reconnect for it to work.

- MacBook: Similar thing happens with Microsoft Teams. In this case though, my headphones is already paired with my MacBook and connected, so I fire up Teams (from scratch) and dial in to a meeting. You'd expect it to work fine right, but the audio doesn't work, even though Teams detects my headphones as the output device. I have to turn my headphones off and on during the call (or reboot my MacBook) for it to work properly.

I can reproduce these issues consistently. I'm not a 100% sure if it's an issue with my Sony headphones, but the point is, all these products that I've listed are fairly recent and fairly expensive, and I deserve a better user experience. Bluetooth has indeed come a long way, and at least for me, audio quality isn't really an issue, but the fact that these sort of connectivity issues are still occurring on recent, premium devices, is unacceptable.

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[–] Tropic420@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 3 years ago

My guess would be its Sonys fault. I have a JBL Flip 5 which works perfectly with my Phone but my Sony srs xg 300 has similar issues as u discribed.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Those all sound like software issues from Sony on their headset, rather than limitations of Bluetooth. I have a pair of BOSS that is connected to both my laptop and phone at the same time, and the switch between them is seemless.

Listen to music on phone. Pause, go to laptop. Put on a video on YouTube. And it instantly switches to my laptop for sound.

Be on a call on discord from my phone while I'm out. Get home, enter the call from laptop, and boom. Automatically switched from phone to laptop and I don't have to change a single setting.

Sorry you have a bad experience with SONY. But I can assure you. It's not a Bluetooth problem. It's a SONY problem.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Well, my point still stands. How is one supposed to know that this particular headset had these sort of issues? I did extensive research before buying mine, and no one reported any such issues. Admittedly, it was still fairly new when I purchased it so there may not have that many reviews, but Sony isn't some random brand and their audio gear is generally well received.

On the other hand, I could just pick up any cheapo TRRS headset and know that it'll work without a cinch. We're just not there yet with wireless headsets if we can't even rely on reputed brands to work consistently.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

I don't think your point stands at all.

If you're asking how someone is supposed to know without knowing then the answer is you can't. Obviously.

You looked at biased reviews that had clearly not tested the product in the manner of which you wanted to use it. You made a bad purchase. I'm sorry. But that's not the fault of Bluetooth. That's the fault of Sony.

Are you going to claim that smartphones are hot garbage just because Nokia made a really shitty one? They were a reputable phone brand too. Until they weren't. Maybe you just learned that the hard way with Sony.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

The thing is, it's not just me/Sony. There's been several reports of similar sort of issues for wireless headphones in general.

And in comparison, there's very little issues with wired, so my point still stands - wireless audio still has issues - I don't care if it's a fault with Bluetooth or an implementation bug on the headphones or the app or the OS, the point is, there are still issues that you may be unaware of when buying a wireless headphones, when there's next to none with wired.

You're quick to blame Sony, but if you can't trust a reputable Japanese brand who've been making audio equipment for over 70 years now, who can you trust? Afterall, reviews are "biased" and can't be trusted, so I guess it's down to pure luck then, right? And even if you get lucky and think you've made a good buy, there's no guarantee that something won't break with a future update. For instance, here's a thread where someone's mic stopped working after a Windows update - turns out that the fault was with the Intel Bluetooth drivers, and downgrading the drivers or the update fixes it. Who wants to put up with this sort of nonsense when you've got a meeting or an interview to attend to, and suddenly you find your headphones no longer work because of a fricking update?

This sort of unreliability is precisely why many people prefer sticking to the tried and trusted wired headphones.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Your argument is irrational. So because Ford makes terrible quality cars all cars are bad? I mean. If we can't trust the company that made the first industrially made car, then who can we trust? After all, there's so very little that can go wrong with a bicycle or ones own legs.

I talked about Sony because YOU said you had problem with them. Where you admit that you bought it very close after launch where not many reviews had come out.

You think wired headsets can't get fucked by faulty drivers? Have you ever had an issue with your audio drivers as a whole? I have. Doesn't matter if you use wired or wireless then.

I'm telling you point blank. There are good products where it works seemless between different devices. But you just won't have it cause you had a bad experience once with a poor purchase from your end.

If you wanna use wired by my guest. More products on the shelf for me. But your stance against Bluetooth as a whole is ridiculous. Shall we say wired headsets are garbage because what it the wire gets damaged? Man cable close to the the male connection always end up breaking! Terribly unreliable!

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

In all my life I've never had a problem with wired headset not working due to driver issues. Sure there were the occasional overall sound card issues, but those were dating back to the Windows 9x days. Also, theoretically and statistically speaking, a wireless setup has more parts and more complexities, so it's more likely to fail.

There are good products where it works seemless between different devices

Citation needed. And I repeat my previous question - how exactly is one supposed to discover these set of devices? What if you say use a particular model of Thinkpad and the device wasn't tested against it? I doubt there exists a database somewhere that has list of every wireless headset tested against every Bluetooth capable device. So ultimately it's up to the luck of draw, and that's not a very good user experience. Whereas with wired, I can he 100% sure a wired headset will work if a device has the matching aux jack.

Also, the wire getting damaged isn't really a problem, any decent wired headset would have a replaceable wire, so you can always swap it out with any standard TRS/TRRS cable and you're good to go. Whereas with wireless, the battery is almost guaranteed to degrade after a few years, and it can be really hard or even impossible to replace, depending on the model.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Aha... so now that it comes to wired, the "how are you supposed to know" doesn't apply anymore?

You bought a shitty wireless and use that to hate on the entire protocol.

I've bought bad wired ones where the wire breaks easily, but the same logic doesn't seem to apply there for you.

Any decent wired headset has easily replaceable cables?

Any decent wireless won't have the problems you've mentioned. And the battery is not going to be a problem for many many years. My boss ones are on their fourth year. Still get out 7-8 hours of non stop usage which is more than enough for me.

But sure. They do degrade. That's factually true and inevitable. It's part of the price for the convenience of not having to deal with a cable.

But you hit the nail on the head yourself. "Any decent headset". Same thing can be applied to wired, as wireless. Buy decent products and you won't have issues.

"How are you supposed to know" goes for both too. You can't tailor your argument to only work for one type and ignore it for the other.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child)

You bought a shitty wireless and use that to hate on the entire protocol.

The WH-1000XM5 isn't a shitty wireless headphone, it has issues but I wouldn't call it shitty. If it really was that shitty then it wouldn't have a positive rating on sites like Amazon, WhatHiFi, Soundguys etc. In saying that, I do consider it worse than a wired headphone, but that I believe is because of the limitations of current wireless technology. Thankfully it also has a wired mode which works fine, and the ANC works well too, so it's not completely useless to the point that I'd call it "shitty". It certainly is flawed, and annoying at times.

I've bought bad wired ones where the wire breaks easily, but the same logic doesn't seem to apply there for you.

That's because wires are cheap and easy to repair or replace. What will you do when a wireless headphones breaks or doesn't work as intended? The only realistic option is to replace it, which will either create more e-waste, or just be a PITA in general, trying to find another headphones that work.

Any decent wired headset has easily replaceable cables?

Of course. I'm not taking about those cheapo $2 headsets that you'd find in a dollar store.

Any decent wireless won't have the problems you've mentioned

But mine did though, and also, lithium batteries degrade over time, and that is an undeniable fact. It's also an undeniable fact that it's extremely difficult or even next to impossible to replace the battery on most of these headphones.

Still get out 7-8 hours of non stop usage which is more than enough for me.

Good for you, but that's not enough for me. Every now and then I take a 16+ hour flight (with maybe a 6-10 hr halt), so that battery life isn't going to cut it. And with most of these headphones, you can't use them while charging either.

Buy decent products and you won't have issues.

And my original point still stands. How exactly is one supposed to figure out what's a decent wireless headset? The WH-1000XM5 is still rated very highly on pretty much every website. By all definitions, it's supposed to be a decent headset. If you've got some sort of secret website or method to determine if a headset is decent or not, I'm all ears.

"How are you supposed to know" goes for both too. You can't tailor your argument to only work for one type and ignore it for the other.

Not really, because my experience is primarily with wired headphones, so I've already got a winning formula for selecting decent wired headphones - the ones which have a replaceable wire are decent, anything beyond that would be nitpicking on the audio quality like audiophiles do, or minor things like ear fit and noise isolation etc - but all that would boil down to personal preference. On the other hand, I don't have a working formula for picking decent wireless headphones, so if you do, please share.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

You're so irrationally upset about this that you can't even see how you contradict yourself in your essays.

And why are you quoting me, quoting you?

Any decent wireless won’t have the problems you’ve mentioned But mine did though,

It's clearly not very decent then if you have those problems.

Not really, because my experience is primarily with wired headphone

Your personal lack of knowledge and experience in other fields is not an argument against anything. We get it. YOU don't like wireless because YOU had a bad experience. That's ok. But why you seem to think your lack of knowledge is somehow an argument against wireless=bad is unclear to me.

If you’ve got some sort of secret website or method to determine if a headset is decent or not, I’m all ears.

I do this cool thing where I go to my store. And I ask to try the headset I'm interested in. I get personal hands on experience. I connect it to my phone, and to my watch. And I see how it handles two connections at the same time. It's not rocket science.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child)

I do this cool thing where I go to my store. And I ask to try the headset I'm interested in. I get personal hands on experience. I connect it to my phone, and to my watch. And I see how it handles two connections at the same time. It's not rocket science.

Yeah, that's not really an option where I live (New Zealand). We have very limited choices of both physical stores, as well as models available. In my case, the WH-1000XM5 wasn't available in any physical stores when I bought it, also, I ordered it online directly from Sony (another reason for ordering direct from Sony is I get a discount thru my company).

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

That sounds like a giant. You problem. And not a wireless problem.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

How is simply living in my country a "me" problem? Also, the fact remains that wireless headsets in general have way more problems compared to wired, and that has nothing to do with me.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

No. It just means you have more problems with purchasing wireless products. How many people live in New Zealand? 5 million? So wireless headsets are bad, because 5 million kiwis can't go to a store and try them. Is that your reasoning?

What are these way more problems? You've listed 2.

Bad wireless connection Batteries can run out.

Wired headsets can have Bad wires or bad male/female connectors too so not really an exclusive problem.

But sure. Batteries CAN run out. Good thing most decent wireless headsets also come with a wired option.

This doesn't make them generally worse. It just makes them worse for YOU. Because you're a kiwi who can't go to a Playtech store or something.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago* (1 child)

It just means you have more problems with purchasing wireless products

It's not just me, it's the technology in general.

What are these way more problems? You’ve listed 2.

Wireless interference
Initial connectivity/pairing issues
Failure to reroute audio/mic from an app to the headphone
Future OS update or headphone firmware update could break things
Battery health will degrade over time, which typically means you need to buy a new headphone every few years
It's a hassle to have yet another thing you need to remember to charge

Wired headsets can have Bad wires or bad male/female connectors too so not really an exclusive problem.

As I said before this isn't really an issue as you can easily replace the wire, but more than anything, it's extremely unlikely that there would be a bad wire/connector on a brand new headset.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Let's go over this once and for all. Because I'm sick of having to repeat myself.

Wireless interfere and other connectivity/pairing issues can be summed up into 1 complaints.

Connectivity issues.

I have had a pair of Jabra earplugs and boss headphones combined for over 7 years now.

Not once have i ever experienced connectivity issues while paired. I have had problems pairing to certain phones. But since that was specific to that phone. I'm not exactly going to blame the earplugs.

Failure to reroute audio.

That sounds very specific to certain headsets or earplugs. It's a product issue. Not a Bluetooth issue. As mentioned many times. My headset does it seamlessly between devices. It's not a problem if you buy a good pair of headsets/earplugs.

Future OS update or headphone firmware update could break things.

That could probably be the case sometimes. Most likely won't last very long if you report the problem.

Battery health will degrade over time, which typically means you need to buy a new headphone every few years

My jabras are going strong despite being almost 7 years old. They easily last an entire day of normal use. But yes battery do degrade. That's part of the price you pay for the convenience of not needing a wire. Maybe I'll have to replace them once they hit the 10 year mark. But I'm OK with that. Sounds worth it to me.

it's a hassle to have yet another thing to charge.

That is very personal don't you think? These days remembering to charge things is as easy as remembering to put them in their place. An organized person will have little trouble putting things in the same place once they are done with them.

I can't replace a wire on my wired headset to my computer. Would have to open them up (somehow while not breaking them) and re-soldier a new cable and THAT is a real hassle. Gonna have to buy a soldiering iron too. Probably best for most to let a repair shop do it then. Same as a battery replacement.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child)

I have had a pair of Jabra earplugs and boss headphones combined for over 7 years now.

That's just anecdotal, that doesn't mean that other products or other users haven't had any issues.

It's a product issue. Not a Bluetooth issue. As mentioned many times.

As I mentioned before, I don't care that whether it's a "Bluetooth" isssue or not, it's a common issue experienced with that class of devices. The point is, the issue exists, whether or not it's a fault of the actual Bluetooth protocol isn't the point here.

My jabras are going strong despite being almost 7 years old. [...] Maybe I'll have to replace them once they hit the 10 year mark.

Again, anecdotal. I highly doubt that your battery would last for 10 years (and still have any useful capacity), which would be going against the well established averages for lithium ion. Many popular wireless earbuds, such as the Apple Airpods, have a lifespan of only 2-3 years.

The fact is that most wireless headsets will turn into e-waste - and dangerous e-waste at that - in a much, much shorter time frame compared to wired. That does not sound okay to me.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/your-wireless-earbuds-are-trash-eventually/

That is very personal don't you think?

And yet, it's still an additional activity that one may not want to engage in. It's a pretty common complaint, so it's not as personal as you think. Lots of people avoid wireless products for this reason alone.

I can't replace a wire on my wired headset to my computer.

And as I said before, any decent headset will have a replaceable wire. But even if you can't replace or repair the wire yourself, it's typically not an issue for a repair shop to do it, and it's pretty cheap too. Whereas it may not be that straightforward or cheap to replace a built-in battery - for starters, your repair shop may not even have the battery in stock (especially if it's a 7+ year old, not super-popular model), assuming someone even makes a replacement battery, you'll need the shop to order it in, which can take a long time, considering most airlines prohibit shipping loose batteries in cargo - which means that the battery will need to be shipped by land and/or sea. And even then, it doesn't solve the e-waste problem.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

You're really just repeating the same fallacy over and over. If you go to a bakery to buy bread, and then didn't like the bread.

Are you going to blame it on bread in general. Or are you going to blame the baker?

What you're doing here, is blaming the bread for being bread, competed ignoring the fact that the baker simply doesn't know what he's doing.

Any argument I put forth you simply refuse to accept. And it's amazing to me, that you who doesn't prefer to use wireless. Have such a vast experience with them that you can speak in general terms for all of them.

Your bad purchase does not reflect the entire category.

Apple using low battery life on their product does not reflect on the entire category.

Their apple watch has battery that last for 1 day. My Samsung galaxy watch lasts for 5 days

You complain they don't have battery. I tell you that is not really the case, good earplugs can last for many years. But you simply refuse to accept that, citing a different brand?

The amount of wired earplugs that lay on the landfills VASTLY outnumber wireless earplugs.

You don't like wireless because you're stuck 10 years in the past and can't get over that it has progressed a lot. Citing your bad purchase as proof. You ask how to know what to buy. I tell you how. And you refuse it.

I like wireless because I have good products that work incredibly well without issues with wonderful features that is not only convenient, but makes my life easier.

There is not a single wired product that can do what my jabras allow. And that's a fact.

If wireless are so generally bad as you think. Why do everyone use them? If they were so bad as you think. Wouldn't everyone be fed up? The answer is simple. You're stuck in a personal grudge where any argument for them will be brushed off by you as not representative of wireless as a whole. Or you simply refuse to even believe it.

Yes. My jabras really are that old. Yes, their battery is still that good. Despite you believing it or not. You citing apple airpods is irrelevant. They have a short lifespan. So I don't buy them. Because I don't like to buy bad products. It really is that simple.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

Your bad purchase does not reflect the entire category.

And neither does gone one good purchase reflect upon the entire category.

But you simply refuse to accept that, citing a different brand?

The fact that lithium-ion batteries aren't good after 3 years is well established, there are many articles on this from reputed sources. It's not something I made up.

I tell you how. And you refuse it.

I'm not refusing it, it's merely not an option for me, given where I live.

If wireless are so generally bad as you think. Why do everyone use them?

They don't actually. Check my poll results, check any other polls - you'll see that majority of the users still prefer wired.

You citing apple airpods is irrelevant

It's not, because they have the majority of the market share, and are therefore representative of the market, and their battery life is well documented. Your experience with Jabra is anecdotal with nothing to back it up. Therefore, your single good experience with Jabars is just as meaningless as my single bad experience with Sony.

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[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

you’ll see that majority of the users still prefer wired.

Do I now? Because whenever I'm outside. I see people with wireless earbuds. I see wireless headphones. But you know what I almost never see? Wired headphones.

The fact that lithium-ion batteries aren’t good after 3 years is well established, there are many articles on this from reputed sources. It’s not something I made up.

The fact my jabras have more than enough battery for that to not be noticeable after 7 years makes it irrelevant.

And yes, you citing apple IS irrelevant because you're doing it as a response to my success with Jabra earbuds. You're using them as some kind of argument against why me having good products that are working well doesn't actually matter.

With your logic. Wired headphones suck because the 30 dollar pair I bought once were really bad. So therefore they're all bad, and any good wired headphone you can mention. Is just an outliner that doesn't reflect wired headphones as a whole. Because the majority of wired headphones are cheap garbage.

I'm sorry, that I have really good Bluetooth wireless headphones and earbuds. It must truly shatter your world since you try to put so much effort into discrediting me for telling you they exist.

If you want good wireless products, that doesn't have the problems you've mentioned. They exist. You can buy them.

If you want earbuds that last for more than 3 years. Don't buy apple.

I know your argument are shit, Because I'm sitting on the actual evidence and proof that your descriptions are not accurate. I'm telling you they work. And your response is "but these other things didn't work!" So? Don't get those other things then.

There are millions of bad wired headphones. But I assume, you don't buy those. You buy the good ones. Apply the same logic to wireless. And you won't have the problems mentioned.

Please wash off your makeup. White and red is not a good look on anyone.

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[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz [S] 0 points 3 years ago*

Do I now? Because whenever I'm outside. I see people with wireless earbuds. I see wireless headphones. But you know what I almost never see? Wired headphones.

Again, that's just anecdotal. Show me an actual survey or some real statistics which says that users prefer wired over wireless.

The fact my jabras have more than enough battery for that to not be noticeable after 7 years makes it irrelevant.

The fact that you don't have any evidence to show it is irrelevant.

apple IS irrelevant because you're doing it as a response to my success with Jabra earbuds.

It isn't, because Apple earbuds are a market leader and their battery life is well documented. Show me some evidence that Jabra earbuds are good even after 7 years, and I'll accept it as relevant.

Wired headphones suck because the 30 dollar pair I bought once were really bad. So therefore they're all bad, and any good wired headphone you can mention.

If that's your logic then by my logic all wireless headphones are bad because of my experience.

Is just an outliner that doesn't reflect wired headphones as a whole

So is your experience with Jabra.

It must truly shatter your world since you try to put so much effort into discrediting me for telling you they exist.

Actually it doesn't, because you haven't provided any evidence. A claim of a 7 year battery life on a frequently used lithium-ion battery in a device such as a headset, when the industry average is 2-3 years, is utterly ridiculous and unbelievable.

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[–] MDKAOD@lemmy.ml 1 point 3 years ago*

It's not worth arguing with @atomic Apparently my pixel, with pixel buds and watch with wearos is also a software issue. As if the software issue might not lie within the software that drives the Bluetooth protocol, I. E. Bluetooth itself🙄

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